Post details: I didn't get it back then, and neither do most church-goers


Permalink 05:02:41 pm, Categories: GraceHead teaching, By Trent, 866 words   English (US)

I didn't get it back then, and neither do most church-goers

"be perfect, as your Father in Heaven is perfect" - Jesus. (if He is a 10 in perfection then when I perform at a 9.999 level, than I have broken this command.)
"be Holy, as God is Holy" (provided that God is a 10 at holiness, then 9.999 from any one of us breaks the command.)
"unless your righteousness exceed that of the Pharisees, you will not inherit the Kingdom of God." - Jesus. (provided that a Pharisee walked upright, then you must exceed their walk or perish)
"if your eye or arm causes you to sin, then pluck them out and cut off your limbs." - Jesus (know anyone keeping this command?)
"Anger = murder" - Jesus (yep ... and don't forget...) "Lust = adultery" - Jesus
"Sin = falling short of the glory of God" (as if humanity had an alternative)
... just to name a few.

Some people make following Jesus sound like a lead-pipe cinch!! Which of these teaching of the Christ have you followed, or anybody that you have ever met?

Jas 2:10 -
For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.

I think that we would agree that God is incapable of having unrealistic expectations. He never expects one thing and gets another, correct? After all, He is all-knowing.
So, knowing exactly and precisely what to expect from His creation at all times, He is never surprised nor disappointed. Amen?
So, is God stupid? Ignorant? Unrealistic? Or has legalistic religion that emphasizes self-effort missed the whole point.

There is not one single passage verse or chapter that makes any hint towards the legalistic presupposition that we are ABLE to do any law keeping on our own, according even to the grandest efforts and toil of the most capable among us.
We all agree that the scriptures commands us to obey. And without any known exceptions, the scripture gives no indication that we are capable on our own.
Quite the contrary ... the scripture is consistent with the exact opposite:
"Apart from Me you can do NOTHING." - Jesus.(from John)
"Are you so foolish to think that you can get anywhere with human effort?" - Paul (Gal. 3:2)
"the Law is fulfilled in us, as we walk according to the Spirit" - Paul (Rom. 8:4)

Ga 2:21 - Show Context
"I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly."

The problem is that nearly 100% of all Christian churches present only HALF of the gospel. They think that Jesus came just to die for sins, and wipe the slate clean, to give us a fresh start at keeping all those commands that we were never able to keep on our own to begin with ... However, in all the emphasis upon His death, the churches overlook the most important part ... the whole reason for the incarnation. Jesus came to give us LIFE!!

What God offers through Jesus is LIFE (oh yeah, and He had to cleanse us to offer it, but the cleansing is a footnote) ... and without the resurrection, we are to be pitied and hopeless slaves to sin.

"...and if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is vain, your faith also is vain"(1 Corinthians 15:13-14)

To emphasize the contrast to the importance of the resurrection over the death of Christ ... Paul says it this way: "For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life."

When I read that, I nearly lost it. I tried to search the scriptures and find something ... anything, that would tie salvation to the death of Christ ... and not one single passage has been found. 100% of the passages that talk about "salvation" speak only about the LIFE (not death) of the Lord Jesus ... and THIS CENTRAL theme of the whole of scripture is the afterthought for most church-goers.

Since then, and for nearly 20 years now, I have challenged people to find any passage that ties salvation to the death of Jesus rather than the life of Jesus and nobody has yet to find such a verse, if one exists.
So, why do I bring it up?
What does this have to do with the commands of God, and the teaching of Jesus?

The LIFE that Jesus intends to grant - raised from death, and quickening the dead spirits of men to all that are willing to believe ... is the dynamic of His demands. His own life is responsible to fulfill the demands, and by virtue of His life alone are any of the commands kept to God's satisfaction.

In short, God is pleased with Jesus or He is pleased with nothing at all.

He gave His life for us.
So that He could give His life to us.
So that He could live His life through us ...
as though it is us ...
but it is not us ...

Galatians 2:20
"I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me."

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Comment from: Dennis Thompson [Member] ·
I think it is simple... Be complete as I am complete. We get our completeness soley from Jesus Christ and I think all this is, is an exortation to be in him.
Permalink 08/13/07 @ 09:51
Comment from: Pam [Visitor] ·
A seed must die in order for the plant to grow. Jesus, like a seed, died for all the sins of all from the beginning of time to the end of time and that death removed the barrier between God and man that kept them separate. Then Jesus rose again so that all who repent and turn to God may recieve the eternal life that is Jesus. We also follow that same pattern of death to life as we daily die to self, or cease to live for ourselves and live for God as through the power of that gift of eternal life makes us more and more like Jesus every day until the day when we, the saints, meet Him in the air and will be made just like Jesus.

The resurrection of Jesus began the process of restoring a world locked under the law of sin and death to life. This process now continues as the church is being called out, as we were also once locked away under sin and death, to receive the free gift of eternal life when Jesus is revealed to us. This process will continue until the day that the dead are resurrected unto judgement and death is destroyed. All things, at that moment, will become eternal being filled by that same eternal life that Jesus obtained on the cross, when He Who lived a sinless life before God, died for sin.

Praise God and Hallelujah! The saints of this present age of Grace are so blessed to have Jesus revealed to them now by the Grace of God. This to serve the purpose of God that is also for our greatest good. May God hasten the day when the rule of man over man is fully put down and all men and women, just like Jesus, live not to do their own will but to do the Will of the Father. That is the day when Life, Who is Jesus, will have completed its full purpose in returning all things in Christ to God.
Permalink 11/05/08 @ 20:50
Comment from: Timothy [Member] ·
Amen and Amen!!!

So then, if we now forsake the Law(10 Com.) because Christ died...have we not then also forsaken His life?

What is revealed in the forsaking of His commands?

And what is revealed in the sincere effort to keep and honor them?

"You shall know them by their fruit"...
Or one might say you will know He is in them by their fruit.

1Jo 2:3 -
Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.

1Jo 2:4 -
He who says, "I know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not IN him.

1Jo 3:22 -
And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight.

1Jo 3:24 -
Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and HE IN HIM. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

1Jo 5:2 -
By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments.

1Jo 5:3 -
For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.

2Jo 1:6 -
This is love, that we walk according to His commandments. This is the commandment, that as you have heard from the beginning, you should walk in it.

Re 12:17 -
And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Re 14:12 -
Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

We can NOT serve two masters:

"No servant is greater than his master.
How he serves others shows which master he serves.
How he serves his master shows the master within him.

And what the master suffers will his servants suffer,
for they serve in his name.
No one can serve two masters...
either they will hate the one, and love the other,
or he will be devoted to the one, and despise the other." ~ Jesus

"Do you not know your body is a temple wherein God may dwell, or him called satan, according to your faith and acceptance of the Truth, or rejection and lack thereof?" ~ Jesus

"In Him was life, and the life was the light of men." ~ John

Joh 17:10 -
And all Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine, and I am glorified in them.

Joh 17:23 -
I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me.

Joh 17:26 -
And I have declared to them Your name, and will declare it, that the love with which You loved Me may be in them, and I in them."

Eph 1:6 -
to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He has made us accepted in The Beloved.

Permalink 11/05/08 @ 21:27
Comment from: Trent [Member] ·

Judgment reveals what is eternal and what is not ... but nothing in that moment becomes eternal ... for what is eternal has never "become" because "eternality," by definition, has no beginning ...

Those that wait until judgment to "obtain" eternal life, will be shown as dead during judgment, and will receive the same fate as death itself. If death is obliterated and made into nothing, then those who are wicked and dead (having rejected eternal life) will likewise, themselves, be utterly destroyed. The point is that those that are dead are given the same treatment as death ... and it makes no sense to say that the wicked are preserved but death is not preserved when they are both treated in like fashion.

Revelation 20:13
And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds. 14Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.15And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

Three things in this passage get only one conclusion. Death, Hades, and anyone that is not found with Eternal Life ... each of them thrown into the lake of fire and destroyed. As much as one might want to say that 2 of these are disposed and 1 of these three are preserved, that is not what is written. Rather, 3 out of 3 receive the same fate in crystal clear language.

Thus, here is wisdom - Unless you eat the flesh of the Lord and drink His blood, you have no life in you .. and unless your name is written in the book of life, what can judgment reveal except death? Indeed, death can only be hidden for a season and it will be revealed. The revelation of separation from God's eternal life is death everlasting. The second death is not a way to preserve life, but a way to extinguish it.

Therefore, draw a breath and live while there is yet time, being ever grateful for the gift of existence, however, to live as God lives is to merge and mingle with the Spirit of the Lord ... even being infused with His being by invitation and willingness. For many will be shown as neglectful of the gift of Life offered ONLY through the Lord Jesus Christ and thus revealed as dead, having no real life in them ... and they will weep and gnash their teeth, knowing that this good gift of existence is to be taken from them ... but blessed are those that have forsaken and lost their lives, for they have found true Life ... true existence that will not be destroyed nor can it be destroyed. For these who are blessed to have obtained life through Jesus will never taste death.


Permalink 11/06/08 @ 01:42
Comment from: Trent [Member] ·
Amen, Timothy!

Provided that the Lord Jesus is perfect, and that He lives in me ... what would He express in me? Would He express 9.9 perfection, or 10 perfection?

Indeed here is the point. Jesus would only express 10 at perfection for that is all He can express. He is not capable of poor performance.

Thus, as someone who spent years of His life around Jesus even being loved by the Lord and resting even his head upon YahShua's chest at the last supper ... JOHN knew well how to recognize the expression of this Life when it is found in us .. .and He wrote about it from experience. John KNEW how to see and be aware of the presence of the Lord within the hearts of men ... and John apparently didn't see the need to explain what was so obvious:

1Jo 2:3 -
Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.

1Jo 2:4 -
He who says, "I know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not IN him.

1Jo 3:22 -
And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight.

1Jo 3:24 -
Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and HE IN HIM. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

1Jo 5:2 -
By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments.

1Jo 5:3 -
For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.

2Jo 1:6 -
This is love, that we walk according to His commandments. This is the commandment, that as you have heard from the beginning, you should walk in it.

Do you think John saw PERFECT obedience when He saw Jesus in the flesh? What else could John possibly be talking about except the expectation of the expression of perfect obedience in the lives of those that are made alive by the same Spirit that dwelled within the flesh of the Lord? It had to be that John was saying ... show me Jesus come out of you and play .. because I know Jesus and Jesus obeys all commands.

That is how I read it!

Ripening for the harvest,
Permalink 11/06/08 @ 01:59
Comment from: Pam [Visitor] ·
Hi Trent,
Mark 4:26-32 And He said, "The kingdom of God is as if a man should scatter seed on the ground, "and should sleep by night and rise by day, and the seed should sprout and grow, he himself does not know how. For the earth yields crops by itself: first the blade, then the head, after that the full grain in the head. "But when the grain ripens, immediately he puts in the sickle, because the harvest has come." Then He said, "To what shall we liken the kingdom of God? Or with what parable shall we picture it? "It is like a mustard seed which, when it is sown on the ground, is smaller than all the seeds on earth;"but when it is sown, it grows up and becomes greater than all herbs, and shoots out large branches, so that the birds of the air may nest under its shade.

This is what I was trying to convey:Jesus is the seed of the Kingdom and Jesus is the Life. This seed was sown when Jesus died on the cross and it began to grow when he rose again. A seed must die before a plant can grow and that plant produces fruit. The quality of life in God's Kingdom is eternal. As of this time, the Kingdom is growing as people continue to come to Christ in faith and enter into citizenship of that Kingdom through Him. The time is coming when that Kingdom will be fully grown and all things will be shaded by it and there will be no more death for God's Kingdom will have filled all things making no more room for death and only the Life that will remain Who is Jesus. By His death all things were reconciled to God and by His life all things will be restored to God. (this could be compared to any relationship in which there has been a serious rift: reconciliation comes when the injuring party repents of their wrong doing and the injured party responds with forgiveness and are thereby reconciled but true restoration of the relationship is a process that must be worked out in the same way as we in Christ are working out our salvation which ends in our complete redemption, our total restoration to God) Hebrews 1:8 "You have put all things in subjection under his feet." For in that He put all in subjection under him, He left nothing that is not put under him. But now we do not yet see all things put under him. and Hebrews 1:10-12 And: "You, LORD, in the beginning laid the fundation of the earth, And the heavens are the work of Your hands. They will perish, but You remain;And they will all grow old like a garment; LIKE A CLOAK YOU WILL FOLD THEM UP, AND THEY WILL BE CHANGED. BUT YOU ARE THE SAME AND YOUR YEARS WILL NOT FAIL." and 1 Cor 15:35-38 But some will say, "How are the dead raised up? And with what body do they come? Foolish one, what you sow is not made alive unless it dies. And what you sow, you do not sow that body that shall be but mere grain--perhaps wheat or some other grain. But God gives it a body as He pleases and to each its own body. and 1 Cor 15 42-44 So also is the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption. It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power. It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and their is a spiritual body. and 1 Cor.15:20-22 But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. For since by man came death, by Man also came the ressurection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

The ressurection is a process that began when Christ rose from the dead and it will be completed in this way: 1Cor 15: 24-26 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and authority and power. For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. The last enemy that will be destroyed is death.

Permalink 11/06/08 @ 14:36

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