Post details: How can we affect God?


Permalink 02:20:22 pm, Categories: By Trent, 220 words   English (US)

How can we affect God?

Job 35:6-8 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)

6 If you sin, how does that affect him?
If your sins are many, what does that do to him?

7 If you are righteous, what do you give to him,
or what does he receive from your hand?

8 Your wickedness affects only a man like yourself,
and your righteousness only the sons of men.

No good parent is happy when a child slits their wrists.

Timothy is saying that God knows best what is the abundant way of living, and that is submission to His laws, for our own benefit.
To turn our back on them is to throw stones at our own feet to stumble upon, and God loves us enough to correct that towards a more excellent way.

God gets no charge nor can He benefit from our actions. ... these are for our own benefit and contentedness.
So, I thought I would give it a try ... and now I know why Jesus said that the Sabbath was given for man, not the other way around. I really enjoy the rest and would not give it up for anything ... something to be grateful for.

God knows this and loves me, and I am grateful that through Timothy, He got his message of enjoyment to me, finally.
And enjoy it we have!

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Comment from: Timothy [Member] ·
Amen. Trent...amen.
Thanks once again for your always calm and wise approach - the fruit of the Spirit.

I honestly can not understand everyones resistance.
It IS one of the Ten Commandments of which we all agree on nine. It makes no sense at all... the Sabbath is a GIFT.
Permalink 05/09/07 @ 14:47
Comment from: Trent [Member] ·
For the squeemish, I encourage them to taste it and see if it is good or not. And to not waste their breath trying to persuade us that are enjoying it, to agree with them saying that it is un-enjoyable.

We know by experience the exact opposite, and what do they really know about it anyway?
A notion?
A guess?
A speculation?

What good are notions of un-enjoyableness against first-hand knowledge otherwise?

Ripening still,
Permalink 05/09/07 @ 15:05
Comment from: dorsey [Visitor] ·
I agree, a sabbath is a gift. I'm just not convinced that what we know as Saturday is exactly the seventh day of the week, counting all the way back to the moment that God separated the light from the darkness. Then again, I'm open to the possiblity that the Genesis creation story is more allegorical than literal. I don't have a basis for believing one way or the other on this, except that we tend to believe things because we choose to.
Permalink 05/09/07 @ 15:11
Comment from: Timothy [Member] ·
Please read all of my Sabbath Bible study carefully. I know its long, but read it all. Most of your questions are answered there. Even the calender question, but not all the way back to creation. :-) obviously.
Permalink 05/09/07 @ 15:15
Comment from: Pam [Member]
Hi Trent,

As a suicidal child, I may refrain from cutting my wrists to keep from hurting my parents but still feel like killing myself. How much better to have my desires changed so that I enjoy life and not long for death?

It does no good to keep the Sabbath if one doesn't know the Lord of the Sabbath. There is no inward change that occurs by outward obedience only Jesus changes our desires. Our outward appearance should be the manifestation of that inward change and every day in Jesus is the Sabbath for He is the substance of that which is foreshadowed in the Sabbath Law. He is also the substance of all the Ten Commandments.

Permalink 05/09/07 @ 15:27
Comment from: dorsey [Visitor] ·
I took off Monday this week and laid low. I enjoyed it. I thanked God for the time of rest. I do this often, on various days, sometimes even Saturday or Sunday. I've tasted and seen that this is, indeed, good. No one is trying to tell you that you can't enjoy whatever Shabat you choose. What I find disillusioning is this circularly logical my-way-or-the-highway call to repentance. I'm just not seeing it.

To be honest (I don't mean this to be an insult), I think you are more ardent about this topic than I. I don't consider it all that critical, so I'm just going to wish you well.


Permalink 05/09/07 @ 15:34
Comment from: Timothy [Member] ·
It is not I that is ardent about it, but the Lord. It is He who commands me.
I simply obey His command about the Sabbath and take joy in doing so, because I love Him and this is the Day He set aside. He did not just say do as you will, or that any day you choose is fine, but God said keep the 7th day holy because that is the day He Himself sanctified and rested on when creating the world.
We keep it because the Lord commands it and to honor Him, not ourselves or what we do.

We must all ask ourselves, and be VERY truthful:
Do we put God first? I mean really first. Think about it honestly and don't rationalize...
Is God first? Or are we and the cares of this life first?

This is what God requires and this is for our own benefit, a strengthening of faith, a renewing of our relationship with Him.
Go our own way and we shall surely stumble. Yet trust completely in the Lord we can not go wrong, though we, being flesh, shall still stumble, yet we will not fall, if we trust in Him who continually upholds us by the power of His Right Hand, even Christ. Amen.
Permalink 05/09/07 @ 16:08
Comment from: Timothy [Member] ·
Hey Trent, I never thought this would be such a big issue. I thought all the Bible verses and the Letters spoke for themselves.
But it is good to see so many interested in what exactly is pleasing to God, though we continually stumble in our walks, not yet having full knowledge, nor understanding. This is also faith: In the knowing that we do not need to know, rather, we just trust in God. For God wants us to move from our complacency and stand up and be doers of the Word and not just hearers.
So I say again and God confirms, if He has written it in stone, then follow it and be blessed therein.

To God be all glory and praise and thanksgiving; and to the Lamb. Amen.
Permalink 05/09/07 @ 16:41
Comment from: Trent [Member] ·
Amen, Pam
We don't change what we are by what we do. That is the lie of religion.
Those of us (GraceHeads) that see that as an essential lie, should be the only ones fit to talk about obedience because we do it with the right motive ... not to change ourselves, but because we are already changed. In that way obedience tells an outward truth of an inward reality. Nevertheless, the religious fakers are lying by their obedience because their hearts are wicked, and "they are merely cleaning the outside of the cup." ... all the more reason for GraceHeads to speak clearly about obedience, to shed light on the lie of religion and their false obedience.

We love, because he first loved us.

Permalink 05/09/07 @ 17:27
Comment from: Pam [Member]
Amen, Trent. The Sabbath rest is a gift just as our faith in Jesus Christ is a gift and both are received and can never be earned by our own self-willed effort.

Permalink 05/09/07 @ 17:35
Comment from: Len [Visitor] ·
"...with the right motive ... not to change ourselves, but *because we are already changed. In that way obedience tells an outward truth of an inward reality.* Nevertheless, the religious fakers are lying by their obedience because their hearts are wicked, and "they are merely cleaning the outside of the cup." ... all the more reason for GraceHeads to speak clearly about obedience, to shed light on the lie of religion and their false obedience.

We love, because he first loved us."

Permalink 05/11/07 @ 08:21
Comment from: Timothy [Member] ·
Thats it! Thank you Trent, Pam and Len. That was my main point all along...that we should obey because God asked us to...because we love Him and are trying to honor Jesus' sacrifice, which saved us from our sin and disobedience, for to disobey God is sin.
I am someone who has sinned much in my life and know VERY well the gift of Grace that saved me. I know also my new works cannot save me...I am not fooled or a fool to think I could ever be Christ's shed blood am I made worthy, Amen. Rather, I obey and teach others also, because God said in obedience is our love made perfect...a completion of our faiths. 'Faith without works is dead and likewise works without faith is also dead.'
All this comes after (faith must come first) our acceptance of Christ, not before, because all I did before I knew and accepted Christ was in vain and only shows that the love of my heart was then corrupted and carnal.
Therefore, what I was saying is that indeed the Law is not made void through faith, as Paul said. Rather we establish the Law through faith (Romans 3:31), writing it on our hearts, because of our new inward person.
My old man, who broke the Law in ignorance is dead; and my new living man has come into the knowledge of Christ's salvation, which saves me from the penalty of the Law - death. So in joy and thanksgiving I now STRIVE to keep the Law, not that I will keep it perfectly, I am flesh, but that I will strive to obey, because of the love of God in my heart, in which I now strive always to obey His voice, seeking to please Him. This is how I establish the Law through faith, because I know I am already saved and if I stumble Jesus will lift me up even 7 times 70 times.
So then, in my obedience to the Law is my love made perfect, because, as Trent said, it shows my inward man's motive, who is already justified by faith in Christ, for He is Holy and just and good; and likewise is the Law holy just and good(Rom 7:3). For in Christ does the Law find completion, because in Christ I can now keep it by His strength and by the grace He has given me.

So then the question for Christians is:
If you obey not, why?

"And hereby we do know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. He saith, I know Him, and keepeth not His Commandments, is a liar, and the Truth is not in him. But whoso keepeth His Word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in Him. He that saith he abideth in Him ought himself to walk as He walked." (1 John 2:3-6)
Permalink 05/15/07 @ 18:28

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