Trent,

That is true and when Christ returns with the redeemed the Kingdom that will be established will not be of this world. It will be the return of the direct rule of God. All who enter that Kingdom at it establishment, after the Trubulation period, will be regenerate persons. God's work on earth is not yet ended with the completion of the calling out of the Church. All of the Bible is a spiritual but it is also literal. The Chruch is not the culmination of the plan that God lays out in scripture.

Stay tuned for much more on the Earthly Kingdom Rule of Jesus Christ.

United In Christ And Not By Our Doctrine Or Knowledge,

Pam
Pam

Yikes, something happened and I was replying to you reply to my article and somehow, I ended up here...

Let's not let Satan confuse?

Pam

Another thought. The Catholic Church through the power of Covenant Theology was most certainly a conterfeit Kingdom of God that, at one time, strangled the the rest of the world that was not under the Ottoman Empire, by the power of religion. It was truly a kingdom of this world masquerading the promised Kingdom of God. I am not looking for that kind of kingdom.

Pam

Trent,

We all come into the world in the same condition. We are alive, for everyone ever living has been written into the book of life. It is sin and death that blots out our name. Yours was blotted out and so was mine. We were rewritten into the Lamb's Book of Life.

Death had a beginning as well as it is appointed an end.

Every denomination and theory of theology has its pet line of verses and all verses that refute it are ignored and reguarded as less important or not important at all. They are however, all God breathed and all important to God.

There are many verses in the Bible that are inclusive of all and all is not qualified. I don't fully understand how all of it will work out but there are enough of them to give me hope for all. If one is to entirely spiritualize the book of Revelation and the prophesies of the Kingdom in the OT, then there is no reason for that hope because all ends with the completion of the church.

Many Jews were blinded and could not see the church age and could not see that Jesus was the Messiah. Many other Jews did look forward to the sacrifice that God would provide that would be their hoped for Salvation. I will not be like those Jews who pridefully considered themselves to be the Chosen People of God thinking that their being chosen was for no other purpose that what began and ended with them. I have been called out in Christ for a purpose, in this age to proclaim Salvation in Jesus Christ. In the age to come, to rule and reign with Jesus as one of the redeemed until all enemies are put under His feet, including death. That is the culmination of the Kingdom of God on earth. That is the point where all that is corruptible will be consumed by unquenchable fire, our God is a consuming fire, and that which is corruptible, perishable will be put off and that which is imperishable will be put on. That is the birth of the New Heaven and the New Earth.

Consider these thoughts.

Adam died two deaths. The first was spiritual death, he was cut off from God and the tree of life through disobedience. The second death was physical death and Adam returned to the dust and death having its full force in him was passed to all the Creation.

We Christians also die two deaths. At the moment we accept Jesus and He begins to live in us, we are in a process of dying to self and then we also must die physical death. We have Jesus though and He is a life giving spirit, the second Adam, we do not return to the the dust but are fully redeemed at His return. We will awake from our sleep in Christ with His likeness.

Those who are lost must also die two deaths. They will die physical death and rise to Judgement and then their flesh will be consumed in unquenchable fire. The death of death is the second death and it is the death of all that is corruptible and the putting on of that which is incorruptible. Not only is human corruption traded for spiritual incorruption, but that is the occurance of the entire heaven and earth. All will be made new. And it will be made new by the finished work of Christ's redemption which is the outpouring of the blood that He shed for all the sins of all mankind. I belive that not one drop of His blood wil be waisted.

Also consider, Christ telling Peter that the church would be founded upon the Rock that is Jesus and that the gates of Hades would not prevail against it. At this present time, I don't see the church storming the gates of Hades and that is not possible for the church is not fully gathered. Storming the gates of Hades is of a future work of Christ and those He has redeemed. When those gates are stormed, then Hades will give up the dead within it to judgement and then Hades and Death will be destroyed. What can the death of death be but Life? Death loses and Jesus Who is Life wins. Sinners are not the enemies of Jesus, He came to die for sinners and to save sinners. Hades is full of those whom He loves and whom He died for. Hades(the abode of unrepentant sinners) and Death are the enemies that will most certainly be destroyed and the only way to destroy them is with Life.

"The redeemed of the Lord shall return and come with singing into Zion and everlasting joy shall be upon their heads. Mourning and sorrow shall flee away." Many people I love are not in Christ and many I have love died for all that I know, outside of Christ. For this promise to be true,either all memory will have to be wiped from my mind or the Life that is Jesus will set those that I love that remain imprisoned by sin and death and face firey destruction will be rescued by Jesus when He destroys sin and death. Either of the two must take place for there to be no mourning for me in that eternal state. Either I will remember nothing or there will be no one to mourn any longer. My hope is for the later and my hope as is all my hope is in Jesus Christ.

I don't know how it all fits but I have hope in Jesus Christ that the same life giving spirit that He has planted in me is able to impart life to all. If death was able to spread to all men through the sin of one man and death is weaker than Life, then how could the spirit within me not consume all death.

Christ came to set the captives free and that work has begun in us who are being made like Him but it does not end with us. This is not pie in the sky in the sweet bye and bye. There is still much work to be done on earth, many captives to freed, before we reach that eternal state, that culmination of the Kingdom of God that is planted now in the Hearts of believers, in which nothing corruptible will ever enter for sin and death will be no more.

Pam

This is not universal salvation. This is the completed redemptive work of Jesus. Salvation belongs to the church as the Law was intrusted to the Jews and the Redeemption will be to the redeemed and the Righteous Rule of Christ on earth.

Pam,
===[We all come into the world in the same condition. We are alive, for everyone ever living has been written into the book of life.]===

There is not a shred of scripture that agrees with that viewpoint. Quite the contrary.

Revelation 13:8
All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast—all whose names have not been written in the book of life belonging to the Lamb that was slain from the creation of the world.
Revelation 17:8
The beast, which you saw, once was, now is not, and will come up out of the Abyss and go to his destruction. The inhabitants of the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the creation of the world will be astonished when they see the beast, because he once was, now is not, and yet will come.
Revelation 20:15
If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

===[It is sin and death that blots out our name. Yours was blotted out and so was mine. We were rewritten into the Lamb's Book of Life.]===

God has NEVER blotted anybody out of that book. Quite to the contrary, His promise is to NEVER EVER do it.

Revelation 3:5
He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels.

===[Death had a beginning as well as it is appointed and end.]===

Yes! Death is as temporal as can be, as are those with no life in them (the race of Adam.)

===[There are many verses in the Bible that are inclusive of all and all is not qualified.]===

"All" is a pronoun, and always has an antecedent. It is always qualified, even if implied. The difference is that some people use the context to qualify it, and others ignore the context and choose to qualify it with meanings that are foreign to the text.

===[all ends with the completion of the church]===

The Church was complete before the foundation of the world.
Does your theology have this as the end? Mine does.
"Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood." Rev. 22:14-15

This is the record of the end, in the Bible - Rev. 22:14-15

Or as it is written:
The disciples said to Jesus, "Tell us how our end will come to pass." Jesus said, "Then have you laid bare the beginning, so that you are seeking the end? For the end will be where the beginning is. Blessed is the person who stands at rest in the beginning. And that person will be acquainted with the end and will not taste death."

The end will be where the beginning is ... I am not saying this because it was written beforehand ... rather I would witness that it would have been erroneous had it been written different. I simply know this to be the case, and am delighted that it was recorded.

===[Adam died two deaths. The first was spiritual death, he was cut off from God and the tree of life through disobedience. The second death was physical death and Adam returned to the dust and death have its full force in him was passed to all the Creation.]===

The Bible never speaks of "spiritual death" because to do so would be an oxymoron.
The Bible reveals some to be spiritual, and others to be dead, but never both.

All of creation is automatically dead, because God is not created, and the creation is created. All of creation has a first day and a last day, for this is the testimony of the whole of scripture. So how can something have a beginning and an end, and yet have eternal life? It is impossible. Thus it is better to not be of this world, then to be of it. It is better to have Life that is Eternal, for the alternative is to have temporal life. It is better to be a child of God then a child of time.

===[We Christians also die two deaths.]===

"I tell you the truth, if anyone keeps my word, he will never see death." -John 8:51-53

===[And it will be made new by the finished work of Christ's redemption which is the outpouring of the blood that He shed for all the sins of all mankind. I belive that not one drop of His blood wil be waisted.]===

Me neither.
But, "newness of life" is not by the death of Jesus for all mankind. See: Romans 6:4
His torn flesh is the doorway into newness, but not newness itself. Since the doorway is open, nothing is waisted.

Now, I have a question for you. Provided that the cross of Christ is sufficient to take away the sins of the world (which it has done,) and that God remembers our sins no more, and that the sins are separated from us as far as the east is from the west (which I think we are in complete agreement over) ... why does Jesus say that the Holy Spirit (aka Counselor) would convict the world of sin, and what specific sin is the Counselor convicting?

===[What can the death of death be but Life?]===
Death is a one way trip to a certain finite conclusion. That is true for the body, and it is true fore the soul.
Those with Eternal Life do not taste death, nor could they.

===[how could the spirit within me not consume all death.]===

Look at it this way, were you to be thrown into the sea of consuming fire, you would not be burned.
Knowing there is nothing about us (our dark created nature) that can withstand the flames. Still we will be dancing in the fire, for there is One more Person seen in the fire, then the head-count of those thrown in. And only because He is indestructable, are we likewise indestructible.

Daniel 3:20-25 (NIV)
20 and [the king] commanded some of the strongest soldiers in his army to tie up Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego and throw them into the blazing furnace. 21 So these men, wearing their robes, trousers, turbans and other clothes, were bound and thrown into the blazing furnace. 22 The king's command was so urgent and the furnace so hot that the flames of the fire killed the soldiers who took up Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego, 23 and these three men, firmly tied, fell into the blazing furnace.

24 Then King Nebuchadnezzar leaped to his feet in amazement and asked his advisers, "Weren't there three men that we tied up and threw into the fire?"
They replied, "Certainly, O king."

25 He said, "Look! I see four men walking around in the fire, unbound and unharmed, and the fourth looks like a son of the gods."

NOTE: """the furnace so hot that the flames of the fire killed the soldiers who took up Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego""" ... and likely would be hot enough to scorch 99% of the other people around.

When you are ONE with the consumming fire, then you have just as much chance of burning it as it burning you.

===[This is the completed redemptive work of Jesus.]===

I have news for you ... you are 2000 years late. That is already complete.

Ripening for the harvest,
Trent