Post details: Bishop figures out death and awakening

02/11/08

Permalink 01:27:57 pm, Categories: News, By Trent, 597 words   English (US)

Bishop figures out death and awakening

Bishop: Christians don't go to heaven
Anglican challenges widespread belief, says believers asleep until God returns
Posted: February 10, 2008
2:49 pm Eastern

© 2008 WorldNetDaily

A bishop described as "one of the most formidable figures in the world of Christian thought" is now challenging the widely held belief that Christians go to heaven when they die.

N.T. "Tom" Wright, the fourth most senior cleric in the Church of England who has been praised for his staunch defense of the literal resurrection of Jesus Christ, has published a new book in which he says people do not ascend to God's dwelling place. Instead, deceased believers are in a sleep-like state until God comes back to Earth.

"Never at any point do the Gospels or Paul say Jesus has been raised, therefore we are we are all going to heaven," Wright told Time Magazine. "I've often heard people say, 'I'm going to heaven soon, and I won't need this stupid body there, thank goodness.' That's a very damaging distortion, all the more so for being unintentional."

When asked to explain why he rejects that typical sentiment, he said, "There are several important respects in which it's unsupported by the New Testament. First, the timing. In the Bible we are told that you die, and enter an intermediate state. [The Apostle] Paul is very clear that Jesus Christ has been raised from the dead already, but that nobody else has yet. Secondly, our physical state. The New Testament says that when Christ does return, the dead will experience a whole new life: not just our soul, but our bodies. And finally, the location. At no point do the resurrection narratives in the four Gospels say, 'Jesus has been raised, therefore we are all going to heaven.' It says that Christ is coming here, to join together the heavens and the Earth in an act of new creation."

In the Gospel of John, Jesus himself is quoted as saying, "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven." (John 3:13)
MORE...

It is written:

All people, both good and evil, sleep in death...they are in no way among the living, for they know nothing; all their thoughts have perished with them. And so they wait until the great and glorious day of the Lord, unto which it is appointed to raise all who sleep...first, all who belong to Him...and then later, those who remain unto the seat of judgment.

I say, to be absent from the body is to indeed be with the Lord, for all those who die in Christ will see Him in the blink of an eye, for those of death and sleeping know not the passage of time. They do not even know they have died, for they only know the end of life is near, then the beginning of their new life with Christ. So I tell you, there is indeed life after death, but during death there is most certainly not. If there was life during death and sleeping, then Christ would not be the First Fruits from death. And if He is not the first to be raised from death, then Christ did not die. Then sin and death have the victory, and all is lost. If all have victory over death as living spirits, then all are like Christ, and Christ's penalty and victory is for not, and all are forsaken; and all will forever be part of the dead and dying, for the penalty of sin is death.

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Comment from: Judah [Visitor] · http://judahgabriel.blogspot.com
Thanks for posting this. I agree, there isn't evidence in Scripture for being taken up to heaven immediately upon death.

I've always understood it to be this way; when death hits, you don't exist. When Messiah returns and raises the dead who loved Him, it will be as if coming awake from sleeping -- you won't remember how long you've been sleeping, only that you did indeed sleep. You exist as instantly as when you were conceived.

I wonder about the reverse, about judgement. While Hell is a separate topic, I do wonder if folks who hated and rejected God will get immediate judgement upon death or will it come only when Messiah returns? Interesting stuff. Does he comment on Tom Wright comment on this?
Permalink 02/11/08 @ 13:49
Comment from: Timothy [Member] · http://www.TrumpetCallofGodOnline.com
Ton O' Proof below :^)

From Q&A Bible/Letter studies at: TrumpetCallofGod.com


Question #4: Where do the dead go when they die?

Answer: They go to their grave until the time of the Resurrection.

When they are carried to the grave, an honor guard keeps watch at their tomb. (Job 21:32)

Don’t be so surprised! Indeed, the time is coming when all the dead in their graves will hear the voice of God’s Son, and they will rise again. (John 5:28-29)

[God speaking] And so they wait until the great and glorious day of the Lord, unto which it is appointed to raise all who sleep...first, all who belong to Him...and then later, those who remain unto the seat of judgment.
But in My mercy, I have made death as to sleep, so all those, who love Me and I love, do not suffer in death, but only that they close their eyes to this life and open them again to the Kingdom of God, which is in Christ Jesus. He, and He alone, will stretch out His hand and lift you from the grave in which all will sleep, save those who are awake at His coming, for He holds the keys to death and hades (sheol or the grave). (Letters from God and His Christ - Volume 1 - “Death and Awakening”)

Q & A: Regarding Death, Demons and Spirits



Question #5: Is King David in Heaven now?

Answer: No. The following verses in Acts answers this question.

“Dear brothers, think about this! David wasn’t referring to himself when he spoke these words I have quoted, for he died and was buried, and his tomb is still here among us. (Acts 2:29)

For David himself never ascended into heaven. (Acts 2:34)




Question #6: Who is in Heaven now?

Answer: God, Jesus, the angels, Enoch, Moses, Elijah, and all babies and young children, who had not yet sinned who remain innocent with pure hearts.

Enoch walked with God; then he was no more, because God took him away. (Genesis 5:24)

As they were walking along and talking together, suddenly a chariot of fire and horses of fire appeared and separated the two of them, and Elijah went up to Heaven in a whirlwind. (2 Kings 2:11)

Just then there appeared before them Moses and Elijah, talking with Jesus. (Matthew 17:3)
[Note: From 2 Kings 2:11, we know that Elijah was in Heaven, and in Matthew 17:3 Elijah appeared with Moses at the Transfiguration of Jesus. By this we know that Moses must have also been in Heaven.]

Jesus said, “Let the little children come to Me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of Heaven belongs to such as these.” (Matthew 19:14) (*This verse has a double meaning. It refers specifically to the children’s assurance of Heaven, it is already theirs it “belongs” to them; and it also says people (adults) must become humble and be like children, who are innocent and have pure hearts, to enter the Heaven.)

“Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God.” (Matthew 19:14)




Question #7: Is it true that the soul is immortal and that only the body dies?

Answer: No. We are mortal until Jesus raises us from the grave at the Resurrection. Then we will be made immortal.

‘Can a mortal be just and upright before God?’ (Job 4:17)

For at the right time Christ will be revealed from heaven by the blessed and only almighty God, the King of kings and the Lord of lords. He alone can never die (immortal). (I Timothy 6:15-16)






Question #9: How does the Bible and the Letters from God and His Christ repeatedly refer to death?

Answer: The dead person is “asleep” or “sleeping”.

Then he said, “Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep, but now I will go and wake him up.” (John 11:11)

Then he told them plainly, “Lazarus is dead. (John 11:14)

When your days are over, and you rest with your fathers. (2 Samuel 7:12)

Give light to my eyes, or I will sleep in death. (Psalms 13:3)

We believe that Jesus died and rose again and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in Him. (I Thessalonians 4:14)

(#9 continued on the following page)

Q & A: Regarding Death, Demons and Spirits



Question #9: How does the Bible and the Letters from God and His Christ repeatedly refer
to death? (continued from previous page)

Answer: The dead person is “asleep” or “sleeping”.


Many of those sleeping in the dust of the earth will awaken, some to everlasting life and some to everlasting shame and abhorrence. (Daniel 12:2)

Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed-- in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. (1 Corinthians 15:51-52)

For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, who died for us, that whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him. (1 Thessalonians 5:9-10)

[God speaking] All they, who lie in death, are asleep until the time of their resurrection, appointed unto the Son of Man. (Letters from God and His Christ - Volume 1 - “I am He Who Corrects and Disciplines Those He Loves”)

[God speaking] For all those, killed at the hand of another, are but sleeping, and in the Day will be awakened by the Son, Christ Jesus. (Letters from God and His Christ - Volume 1 - “Where Darkness Lived a New Light Shines”)

[God speaking] All people, both good and evil, sleep in death...
And so they wait until the great and glorious day of the Lord, unto which it is appointed to raise all who sleep...first, all who belong to Him...and then later, those who remain unto the seat of judgment.
I say, to be absent from the body is to indeed be with the Lord, for all those who die in Christ will see Him in the blink of an eye, for those of death and sleeping know not the passage of time.
I have purposed all to die since Adam, for death is the penalty for sin. But in My mercy, I have made death as to sleep, so all those, who love Me and I love, do not suffer in death, but only that they close their eyes to this life and open them again to the Kingdom of God, which is in Christ Jesus. He, and He alone, will stretch out His hand and lift you from the grave in which all will sleep, save those who are awake at His coming, for He holds the keys to death and hades (sheol or the grave). (Letters from God and His Christ - Volume 1 - “Death and Awakening”)

[God speaking] The people cry, ‘Disaster! Death and mourning!’ Do not mourn, for they only sleep but for an instant, then comes the face of the Lord, their Redeemer, the One who died and yet lives forevermore. (Letters from God and His Christ - Volume 1 - “Make Way For the Coming of the Lord”)

[God speaking] They need not sleep in death, for the penalty of sin is death. I have found no sin in them. (Letters from God and His Christ - Volume 1 - “To Whom Does the Kingdom of Heaven Belong?”)

[Jesus speaking] Drown the wicked and revive the upright... bring forth all who sleep...quench the thirst of those in the desert...cleanse and wash the mire from those who have become entrapped...bring up all who are downtrodden...make all, who are afraid, courageous for the Lord, teach them to swim...give the poor the riches of Heaven...go and feed those who hunger...and to all, fill with the joy of My coming, and cast away all their sadness forevermore.

Q & A: Regarding Death, Demons and Spirits



Question #9: How does the Bible and the Letters from God and His Christ repeatedly refer
to death? (continued from previous page)

Answer: The dead person is “asleep” or “sleeping”.


[Jesus speaking] Come, all murderers...watch Me raise you, and all who sleep, from the grave. (Letters from God and His Christ - Volume 1 - “Come....Love Awaits You”)

[God speaking] There is no life in death; all sleep forever unless the Son calls you to awake. (Letters from God and His Christ - Volume 1 - “The Great I Am”)

[God speaking] My Son did sleep in the lower parts of the earth...His tomb...for three days. By no means did He descend into the evils of man’s imaginings. (Letters from God and His Christ - Volume 4 - “Proclaim NOT the Hell of the Church of Men...In Their Word is No Mercy Found, Only the Makings of Satan”)

[God speaking] Commit yourself to the dead, and with the dead shall you sleep, having denied the Life sent to you, crucified and raised. Mary sleeps...she is dead, and her sepulcher remains with you to this day. (Letters from God and His Christ - Volume 4 - “To the Church, Who Is in the Midst of and Sits Upon the Seven Hills”)

[God speaking] Yea, even the dead who sleep, having lived unto the Lord, shall be gone from the earth. (Letters from God and His Christ - Volume 5 - “The Last Trump”)

[Jesus speaking] Rest, renewal by the tears of mourning, sleep in the lower parts of the earth, the tomb sealed...the grain of wheat, the Holy Seed, has fallen and died, planted in the earth for three days and three nights: (Letters from God and His Christ - Volume 5 - “He is Risen!”)

[God speaking] Though they stumble, though they shall die, they shall not sleep...they shall arise to glory and abide in the glory of the Lord in His Kingdom... (Letters from God and His Christ - Volume 5 - “Testimony”)

[Jesus speaking] Many of you shall die...let your hearts not be troubled, these things must be...but you shall not sleep. You shall surely pass from the shadow of death into the light of life. (Letters from God and His Christ - Volume 6 - “The Witnesses Shall Prepare the Way of the Coming of the Son of Man, the Holy One of Israel”)

[God speaking] You shall die, yet you shall not sleep at all, having built a great city in the midst of great persecutions and sorrows, yet rejoicing shall only be heard, bringing many to the gates...a great city...a city, called Martyrdom. (Letters from God and His Christ - Volume 6 - “The Prophets Are Sent Out, True and False...The High-minded Abased and Uplifted... The Great and Terrible Day of the Lord Has Come...Who Shall Stand?!”)

*READ ALL of this Bible/Letter study at: TrumpetCallofGod.com
Permalink 02/11/08 @ 18:26
Comment from: Pam [Visitor]
Hi Trent,

I believe that I am in Christ now and when I fall asleep, I will still be in Christ. I will be asleep in Christ as the scirpture teaches. So too are all believers in Jesus. OT saints are safely in the bosom of Abraham. All others are dead and know nothing until they are raised for judgement.

Jesus is in Heaven, seated at His Father's right hand. Indeed my home too is in the Heavenlies for I am in Christ. I am now living as an alien in a strange land. Jesus has promised us a mansion in Heaven and when I die, I expect to rest peacefully in the mansion He has provided for me in Heaven until the gathering of the saints when my spirit will be awakened and joined with my glorified body and I will again be a living soul.

I think the teaching of "going to Heaven" is a simplistic version of a more complicated Biblical truth taught to the masses deemed not able to understand more completely and then upon repeating that teaching for hundreds of years caused it to replace that which the Bible teaches in the minds of most believers.

If we don't search out the scriptures for ourselves to see if the things we are taught are true, we've no one to blame for our ignorance but ourselves.

Pam
Permalink 02/12/08 @ 15:57

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