Permalink 01:45:19 am, Categories: By Len, 1048 words   English (US)

Who Is The 12th Imam?

Within the Shiite, (which is predominate in Iran), it is prophesied that there is a coming 12th Imam who is the great spiritual savior. This Imam is named Abu al-Qasim Muhammad or also called Muhammad al Mahdi. He is said to have been born the son of the 11th Imam, Hasan Al-Askari and his wife, the granddaughter of an Emperor. There are conflicting statements of her name being either Fatima or Nargis Khatoon.

Most accounts of the story say that al Mahdi went into hiding as a child around the age of 5 years (about 13th Century). It said he has been ‘in hiding’ in caves ever since but will supernaturally return just before the Day of Judgment.

According to the Hadith the criteria for the Hidden Imam are:

* He will be a descendant of Muhammad and the son of Fatima.

* Will have a broad forehead and pointed nose.

* Will return just before the end of the world.

* His appearance will be preceded by a number of prophetic events during 3 years of horrendous world chaos, tyranny and oppression.

* Will escape from Madina to Mekkah, thousands will pledge allegiance to him Will rule over the Arabs and the world for 7 years.

* Will eradicate all tyranny and oppression bringing harmony and total peace. Will lead a prayer in Mekkah which Jesus will be at his side and follow in his footsteps.

Remarkably, the 12th Imam theory plays heavily into the world’s current concerns with Iran. The Shiite Muslim President of Iran, Ahmadinejad, is deeply committed to the Islamic Messiah, al Mahdi. There have been many through the years claiming to be the Hidden Imam but Ahmadinejad believes he is yet to come. He claims that he is to personally prepare the world for the coming Mahdi. In order to save the world, it must be in a state of chaos and subjugation. Ahmadinejad claims he was “directed by Allah to pave the way for the glorious appearance of the Mahdi”. This apocalyptic directive includes some very scary proclamations.

The 12th Imam: Why Is This Especially Important Now?

While Christians look for Jesus’ 2nd coming, the Jews await the Messiah and Muslims await the 12th Imam. However, of the three, Allah’s designated Mahdi is the only one who demands a violent path to conquer the world. Mr. Ahmadinejad, and his cabinet, say they have a ‘signed contract’ with al Mahdi in which they pledge themselves to his work. What does this work involve? In light of concerns over Iran’s nuclear capabilities, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has reportedly stated Israel should be wiped off the map. He spoke to the United Nations in September ’05. During that speech he claims to have been in an aura of light and felt a change in the atmosphere during which time no one present could blink their eyes. Iran’s PM is also said to have spoken in apocalyptic terms and seems to relish conflict with the West whom he calls the Great Satan. This is while he proclaims he must prepare the world for the coming Mahdi by way of a world totally under Muslim control. He is working hard to bring about the world-wide horrors that must be in place for their al Mahdi to bring peace.

This notion and goal, along with a violent hatred of infidels, America and Israel reminds us of Biblical prophecies of the coming anti-Christ and the pledges of millions to a deceiving False Messiah who will claim to bring peace. Could this 12th Imam Mahdi and his servant Ahmadinejad spark the last days of the coming true Savior?


The agenda of "the Prince of Persia" and the Principality over
Persia (and much of the Middle East) is to 'bring forth' THEIR VERSION of the last "great messiah/mahdi" who will subjugate and "rule the world for Islam/Allah" with Jesus as his main side-kick [prophet] and cheerleader. (!) . . . late into the tribulation period, this same "messiah/mahdi" will declare himself "God" and therefore worthy of worship as such. - THIS will trigger "the abomination that makes desolate." STAND, THEREFORE, IN THE HOLY PLACE.

Antichrist: Islam's Awaited Messiah (Paperback)
by Joel Richardson (Author) "In the days that we are now living, I believe that there are a handful of issues that God is trying to highlight to the church and the world..."

Frightening Comparative Analysis of Islamic and Christian Eschatology, September 29, 2006 By Dr. Ambrosius Aurelius

This book is a fascinating, frightening comparative analysis of Islamic and Christian eschatology. The author is a Christian (Protestant) who has studied Islam during the course of his long-term involvement in interfaith dialogues. Drawing from the Koran and the Sunna--the two principle sources of Islamic doctrines--he has identified the prophesied Islamic Messiah, Muhammed al Mahdi, as a figure quite similar to the Christian "Antichrist," as described in the book of Revelations, and in the Judaic prophecies of Ezekial and Daniel. He then demonstrates that the returning "Jesus" (Isa) of Islamic eschatology is quite similar to the Christian "false prophet," who will, in fact serve the Antichrist in the conquest and destruction of Israel, presenting himself to the world as a non-divine "Jesus" who is subservient to Allah and his Mahdi. The author's interpretation of the two prophetic traditions is that the Mahdi will re-establish the Islamic Ottoman Empire, which was essentially built on the foundation of the Orthodox Christian Byzantine Empire. This book is particularly frightening in light of the current turmoil in the Persian Gulf. For example, the militias of the Shi'a leader of Iraq, Mohktada al Sadr, is now called the "Mahdi" army. Muhammed al Mahdi is supposed to return to earth, presumably reuniting the Sunna and Shi'a factions of Islam by his presence. The prophesied destruction of Israel in the end times is supposed to originate in Khorasan, modern day Iran. Skeptics will scoff at the whole concept of prophesy, and the perrenial concerns about the "end times," but, after reading this book, I certainly wonder if we are witnessing the beginning of a pan-Islamic reign of terror in the Middle East, and around the world.


The Final Showdown between the kingdoms of darkness [satan] and THE KINGDOM OF LIGHT [Christ, YESHUA, THE LORD] is sitting right at the world's doorstep ... make no mistake about it.

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Comment from: Pam [Member]

I've not read the book you speak of though I have read articles about the Hidden Imam and a bit of what the Shia' believe. Not everyone in Iran is as extreme as the PM but the aspect of what I understand of that faith in the requirement of working to bring Armegedon is frightening. However, I also know that is what people often think about those of us who hold a dispensational view of scripture and I know that I don't want Armegedon. I also know that all of man's systems of governing himself will be broken apart in preparation for the Kingdom and the clash of the three great religions, I'm afraid, is necessary in that process. If this is the Will of God, there is nothing we can do to prevent it but I also don't want to be found guilty of bringing it down. We mustn't fear because a spirit of fear does not come from God. We need to hide ourselves in Him, point others to Him, and be very careful about what we do and say. These are deceptive days and we need to be careful to move and speak according to God only. Prophecy is not about predicting the future but about God bringing human beings to repentance. For those of us who have looked into prophecy and even enjoyed it as a past-time what is coming is not a surprise but the reality of that which we have peered at from afar will not be sweet, it will be bitter and the Book of Lamentations will become our reality. Let us not forget that Jesus died for the Muslim as well as the Jew as well as the Gentile and our enemy is Satan and the sin within our own breast.

Pray for peace in Israel.

Permalink 10/12/07 @ 02:29
Comment from: lenbenhear [Member] · http://www.myspace.com/lenbenherehear
People need to be warned. Only a remnant will hear, heed, and be saved. Nevertheless, GOD will have a trumpet call sent out to all the nations and the world. ... and it will not be an uncertain, or 'sweet, gentle, feminine' kind of sound. MANY will call it "too harsh, ... or too severe." - It is simply THE TRUTH.

You said, "Prophecy is not about predicting the future but about God bringing human beings to repentance." - Of course, Pam, it has ALWAYS been about bringing people to repentance, ... but it is also about sincere and real warnings regarding GOD's *future* and *impending* judgements. - without THAT: you have very little anointing or REALITY to the call to repentance.

Do not worry too much, Pam, about whether this or that person may *seem* to be a bit too direct or "severe" in their warnings of impending judgements. Rather, be a little more concerned that you may be used to speak against those whom GOD has sent to speak forth that kind of message.

Selah. and Shalom.
Permalink 10/12/07 @ 03:31
Comment from: lenbenhear [Member] · http://www.myspace.com/lenbenherehear
Here is an amazing confirmation I just now received in my myspace comments section, just immediately after posting the above messages:

myspace.com comment given: Oct 11, 2007 5:23 AM

HOLD on fire is coming


I was driven to prayer by the Holy Spirit--and it was urgent. A great burden came on me and I saw an open vision of many prophets from all over the world. Most were bruised and wounded men and women of God with their heads hanging low, almost ready to give in to defeat. Then from Heaven came an angel holding a large postcard, and it read:
God Says:


"Sometimes you've thundered My word and few have received it. Remember this, I was watching from Heaven, and I received it because I gave it to you (Isaiah 51:16). Often, you've trembled before My word was released from your mouth, not knowing if it would be accepted...but you spoke it anyway. There were those times when you wanted to throw in the towel, but you kept moving (Luke 9:62). Remember that even Elijah was depressed and wanted to quit (1 Kings 19:4). Do not think this is a strange thing happening (1 Peter 4:12). You're in good company! Like Jeremiah who could not contain the fire I put within Him (Jeremiah 20:9), you also allowed My flaming words to be released.

Some of you, as you moved along in the ministry I called you into, saw restrained but obvious frowns--even on the faces of your own family. Still, you served Me. Yes, still you obeyed My calling for your life. You've learned never to quit in spite of getting weary and sometimes, you had to encourage yourself (1 Samuel 30:6) when no one else would. I now encourage you--Heaven has taken note and angels are being dispatched to help you because you did not quit! You would rather die than not fulfill My will for your life. You remind Me of a man called, "Paul" (Acts 20:24). And his anointing will be upon you."

Permalink 10/12/07 @ 05:36
Comment from: Pam [Visitor]

You misunderstand. I'm not against you. I'm not against anyone.

Permalink 10/12/07 @ 10:29
Comment from: Pam [Visitor]

My comment was not meant as a judgement upon any message that you feel led by the Lord to speak. I can't judge such a thing. My comment was my personal response to what you had posted. I believe that dark and dangerous times are coming and that I need to be careful that the words I speak are of God and that my actions are guided by Him and not fear.

I know that God uses prophecy to show us the dire consequences of life attempted apart from Him. I also know that it is God's goodness that brings us all to repentance. "It is Grace that teaches our hearts to fear and Grace our fear relieves." Prophecy that bears a harsh message teaches us to have a reverential fear of God but when we experience the fullness of His love in Jesus those fears are washed away.

Permalink 10/12/07 @ 12:39
Comment from: Timothy [Member] · http://www.TrumpetCallofGodOnline.com
Powerful and disturbing blog and article I am going to print it and share it at Bible study.

Thanks brother.

Blessings to you and all your beloved... in Yeshua our Savior. Amen.
Permalink 10/12/07 @ 13:40
Comment from: lenbenhear [Member] · http://www.myspace.com/lenbenherehear
If EVER there was a time *to warn AND INFORM people,* brother: it is now.

THE FIRE IS COMING . . . truly, it is coming to PURGE and to CLEANSE and to DESTROY . . .

The Holy Fire is fast on its way to this earth and to all
who dwell therein.

Fire is not just to burn and to burn-up, ... it is to test and to prove.

To prove what kind of person, - what kind of spirit you REALLY are.
To prove whether your professed love for GOD and Truth and others is Real, ... or just a lot of pretense, posturing, & religious-sham.

THE HOLY FIRE IS ON ITS WAY. - And the Fire is to destroyand devour all that needs to be destroyed, ... and to reveal & seal
what spirit you are truly of.

The Fire is coming.

Will you be ready? . . .
ONLY those truly found IN CHRIST will be.


Revelation 3:7-11 (New Living Translation)
The Message to the Church in Philadelphia
7 This is the message from the one who is holy and true,
the one who has the key of David.
What he opens, no one can close;
and what he closes, no one can open:
8 “I know all the things you do, and I have opened a door for you that no one can close. You have little strength, yet you obeyed My word and did not deny Me.
9 Look, I will force those who belong to satan’s synagogue—those liars who say they are Jews but are not—to come and bow down at your feet. They will acknowledge that you are the ones I love.
10 “Because you have obeyed My command to persevere, I will protect you from the great time of testing that will come upon the whole world to test those who belong to this world.
11 I am coming soon. Hold on to what you have, so that no one will take away your crown.
Luke 21:34-36 (New Living Translation)
34 “Watch out! Don’t let your hearts be dulled by carousing and drunkenness, and by the worries of this life. Don’t let that day catch you unaware,
35 like a trap. For that day will come upon everyone living on the earth.
36 Keep alert at all times. And pray that you might be strong enough
[and walking worthy enough] to escape these coming horrors [and trials and tribulations coming upon the earth] and to stand before the Son of Man.”


It accelerates with each passing day and hour . . .

Permalink 10/13/07 @ 03:16
Comment from: lenbenhear [Member] · http://www.myspace.com/lenbenherehear
btw, Pam: no problem. Sometimes I am just a little overly sensitive about women telling those who are called as prophets to "be quiet, be more 'gentle,' 'tone it down,' ... don't speak so plainly or emphatically."

GOD CALLS MEN TO SPEAK *differently* THAN WOMEN. - they also have,(assuming they *haven't* been completely effeminized and immasculated), - GOD CALLS MEN to speak in a place of authority NOT GIVEN to women.
NOTICE THE DIFFERENCE between the tone and voice of Jeremiah, Elijah, John the Baptist, Stephen, Peter, Paul, JESUS, ... and Ruth or Mary or Martha or Esther.

Today, (and I am very very serious about this) there are so many effeminized males that it is almost unbelievable. - and it is a VERY evil thing in the sight of GOD. - TRULY, a VERY evil thing.
Permalink 10/13/07 @ 03:26
Comment from: Timothy [Member] · http://www.TrumpetCallofGodOnline.com
Has anyone noticed just 'who' the Muslim's "messiah" sounds like?!

"Will escape from Madina to Mekkah, thousands will pledge allegiance to him Will rule over the Arabs and the world for 7 years."

Daniel 9:27
he(antichrist) will make a strong covenant with leaders for one week [7 years]. For half of the week he will put a stop to the sacrifice and the grain offering. On the wing of detestable things the desolator will come and continue until the already decreed destruction is poured out on the desolator."

Re 13:7 -
And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

"Will eradicate all tyranny and oppression bringing harmony and total peace."

Rev. 6:2
I looked, and there in front of me was a white horse; its rider had a bow and was given a crown; and he rode off as a conqueror to conquer.

"Will lead a prayer in Mekkah which Jesus will be at his side and follow in his footsteps."

[Notice here where Jesus is placed(demoted or lowered to)....only satan puts himself above Jesus and seeks to usurp His authority.]

*Who might this "jesus" be beside him?

Re 13:11
Then I saw another beast coming up out of the earth. It had two horns like those of a lamb, but it spoke like a dragon.

[*this is the false prophet... such blasphemy to use Jesus' name this way!]

"Muslims await the 12th Imam. However, of the three, Allah’s designated Mahdi is the only one who demands a violent path to conquer the world."

Rev. 6:4
Another horse went out, a red one; and its rider was given the power to take peace away from the earth and make people slaughter each other. He was given a great sword.

JESUS, YESHUA is the ONLY King of kings and Lord of lords!!!

Re 17:14 -
They will go to war against the Lamb, but the Lamb will defeat them, because He is Lord of lords and King of kings, and those who are called, chosen and faithful will overcome along with him."

Come Lord Yeshua!

Re 19:16 -
And on his robe and on his thigh he has a name written: KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.
Permalink 10/13/07 @ 18:09
Comment from: Pam [Member]

You know, the powers that be, namely the EU the head of which is Javier Solana is the one who wrote the seven year peace plan for the Middle East and he is also the one involved in the peace talks with Iran. He also controls all of the troops in the EU in the event of terrorist attack. Some of these troops are already deployed in that part of the world. He despises fundamentalists of all religions and we will be lumped into the same boat with those of fundamental Islam. Those who seek unity of religion will also label us as being the same. Soon it will be okay to hold to any relgion but it will not be okay to believe that it is true and live accordingly. Many innocents will be caught in this and they won't be only Christians. Being a Muslim is what many are born to. It is not a choice. The suffering that will come when the new world religion decends will bring suffering upon all people much as the inquisition. That is another interesting fact about Solana. He has been awarded the Cross Of Isabela, that is the cross of the inquistiion. He is also a New Age Thinker.

We do need to be careful these days that our words are not careless and that they are according to the Holy Spirit. We are dependent upon God to protect us and others. We must stay near to Him.

Permalink 10/14/07 @ 23:16
Comment from: lenbenhear [Member] · http://www.myspace.com/lenbenherehear
Pam, Solana is ONE interpretative and *theoretical* possibility. It is NOT "written in stone" that *he* is the designated antichrist. Neither is the developing theory and insight that the "long awaited Muslim Mahdi-messiah (and his sidekick, Jesus)" COULD WELL BE the final false messiah and the false prophet. - but BOTH have very real and strong possibilities. - that is my whole point in presenting these facts as they are developing.

OF COURSE, "we must stay near to Jesus." (as you have said) and OF COURSE, "we need to be careful that our words are not careless and that they are according to the Holy Spirit." *Now let me exhort regarding something you need to hear and receive: be careful that you do not always play the role of "the elder over others" who tells them what they already KNOW *and* PRACTICE.*

I'm sorry if that sounds a bit severe: but I feel to level with on that one.

kind regards inspite of the admonishment.

Permalink 10/15/07 @ 01:13
Comment from: Pam [Member]

I'm not saying that Solana is the antichrist. I don't think he is. I see him as someone who is preparing the way. He is also very much involved in what is going on in Iran. When we enter overt war with Iran, we will also be at war with China. It is how it is all coming together that I was talking about. I guess I also want us to be mindful that this is about real flesh and blood people. Prophecy has been something discussed in abstract for a long time now. It causes us to be desenthitized to the reality of it. My sister in law would be considered a Jew according to her geneology and her husband a Muslim concerning his. I cannot help but feel concern for their safety in the heat of fear and predjudice that is rising with this conflict. There will be no clear lines drawn in the sand in this war that is most likely going to increase. It will not be easy to know your enemy nor you ally.

I'm not an elder Len and I've no authority nor do I attempt to gain any for myself. I'm a lot older than Trent and Timothy so maybe it sounds that way somethimes. They really aren't much older than my children and I think of them as sons in the Lord. You are my brother too, Len. I wasn't aware of any structure of authority here. I beleive us to be co-equals in Christ. There is no male and female in Christ Jesus. My husband in my authority on earth. Jesus is the Head of us all.

If you really think I'm out of line over something, this is Trent's blog so it would probably be better for us to work this out with him.

I wasn't critisizing your post by the way, I was only expressing what it brought to my mind and heart.

I'm going to ask that we not discuss this anymore except through Trent.

Permalink 10/15/07 @ 10:26
Comment from: Timothy [Member] · http://www.TrumpetCallofGodOnline.com
Len and Pam, I don't know who the antichrist will be yet. The Lord has only revealed to me who the false prophet will be, which totally agrees with Revelation when understanding is given and received, for the Lord has opened this book along with Daniel to me. I did, however, change my very first sentence in my comment above.

Thus says the Lord:
"Oh church of adulteries(the Catholic church), how We mourn for you...you have been judged and shall be left utterly desolate in the Day of the Lord’s wrath. You say you speak for Me, and have Christ’s authority...you have trampled upon the grave of the Resurrected One, making His sacrifice of non-effect. Woe to those who blaspheme the Spirit! Your whoredoms are piled to Heaven. Every Law you have broken, and yet still do you embrace the sins I hate. In all you do have you crucified the Son of Salvation, again and again, denying His name by all your deeds you call mighty and true. Oh unholy church of men, mother of all fornications and lies, your destruction comes nigh. You have become Egypt....Let My people go! Stop desecrating My Sabbaths. Cease from your heresies. Hold your tongue from your blasphemies! And repent!...And I may yet have mercy on you.
Shabbat (Saturday) is the seventh day, and the Sabbath which I have ordained from the beginning.
The Holy One comes quickly and will take from you His own...He shall snatch them from your very breast. No more shall My children receive nourishment from you. No more shall they sit in your deceptions. The light is taken from you...you are left alone, estranged by your false doctrines. Your fate lies with him who is coming, who shall lead many into perdition and death...you shall bear him a son, a man who bears the number of his name, his prophet.
You will not be alone when desolations come. You and your enemy, Ishmael (Islam), shall be destroyed along with the father that bore you both, the father of lies.

Even so, it shall be done.

The Mighty and Strong One shall come and then return in His glory...
and anyone, who calls on the name of the Lord, shall be saved."
Permalink 10/15/07 @ 17:12
Comment from: Timothy [Member] · http://www.TrumpetCallofGodOnline.com
P.S. I should have been more clear in my first comment...
What I was showing was only the similarity of the false prophecy of Islam compared with the TRUE prophecies of Revelation. And how the Koran always points to satan as the author and not "Alla" - God. Also that the Koran is an obvious re-writing of the Bible by satan, who appeared to Mohammad in a cave and lied and said he was Gabriel sent from God.

On the book of Revelation I will soon be doing a complete Bible study as the Lord has told me...and when I do, I will share it with all of you. The Daniel Bible studies are already available on my website.

Yours in Christ's service,
Permalink 10/15/07 @ 17:29
Comment from: Pam [Member]

I wasn't calling in to question anything you wrote. I thought it was good. I was only adding things that I see happening in the world.

I completely agree that the Catholic religion and Muslim religion will fall. They ruled the world once before in conflict with one another. Now it appears that they may enjoy a return to political power by joining forces. I think about the time when they ruled before and how hard it must have been to live under their stranglehold upon the earth. If they do join forces and religion is once again the power of government, on a world-wide scale, it will be...I don't have words for it. I just know that we are basically soft and spoiled and the reality of it isn't going to be anything like we imagined.


p.s. My eyes blurr a lot these days and reading on-line is harder. Forgive me if I miss a point or two.
Permalink 10/15/07 @ 18:16
Comment from: Pam [Member]
p.s. I should clarify by "man-made religion" being a detrimental force.

Permalink 10/15/07 @ 18:17
Comment from: lenbenhear [Member] · http://www.myspace.com/lenbenherehear
Hi Pam. There is no need for us to be in conflict over this. It's just that I know A LOT of women in the churches today that basically act as tho they are almost as "a Mother-Superior" to men in the church, ... including pastors and elders. - this kind of thing I do not sense in you much, ... but sometimes it does come across that way in *some* of your statements or presumptions. - that's why I brought it to your attention. - I won't belabor the point. You & I (most all of the time) get along very well and agree on probably 98% of everything important Biblically. Anyway, I'm not at all angry with you or anything. I just wanted you to be a bit more aware of a very, VERY big problem in the backslidden churches today. ... and believe me: it is no small problem that needs to be dealt with. Believe it or not: prophetically, more and more people (particularly elders) are becoming aware of this problem.

As to the antichrist emerging from the EU, ... or (perhaps) from the Muslim world [ie/ "the Mahdi."] - BOTH, of course, are possible, ... but more and more I am thinking it may very well be a false messiah from the Muslim world that "takes the world by storm and by peace." ... we'll see. But both scenarios are very possible in the next few years.

I think Timothy's prophetic timetable of a rapture by 2012 and the return of Christ by 2020 IS ENTIRELY POSSIBLE, ... and even likely, given the signs of the times and the Biblical presentation of that scenario as he has posted it elsewhere on the internet. Myself, I am anticipating the LORD's return for a Remnant Church VERY SOON, ... and the return of Christ NO LATER than 2030. - I'm not saying, "thus saith the LORD" on that issue, ... just there it is a very strong sense that the end of the 6000 years alotted to man and his governments is due to end BEFORE the year 2030 AD. - Personally, I hope it is well before that time period.

Blessings and Shalom. Sorry if I seemed to have gotten on your case a bit, Pam. I'm not against you at all. I almost always enjoy your input 100%. I just want you to be aware that what I have spoken of here is NOT a small problem in the Body of Christ: it is a HUGE problem. And GOD is getting ready to deal with it on a must different level than in the past. ... "feminism" and aggressive-females will soon be *a thing of the past.* - of this I can assure from the unction of the Holy Spirit. - women and men are going to TRULY learn to relate to one another properly and according to Divine Principles. Things have been *very badly out of order* for a good long time now: it's about to end: and end dramatically ... and by Divine Decree.

Shalom in Sar Shalom Yeshua.
Permalink 10/16/07 @ 08:15
Comment from: Pam [Member]

I raised boys and now that they are young men, I am very aware of how many women these days love to Lord it over men and are vindictive. They are usually women my age and I suspect, they are reacting to their treatment by men in the workplace when they were younger. I remember how bad those days were for women. Now the table are turned and many women are vindictive towards men. They aren't right in what they are doing. It is reactionary and selfish and also sadly, understandable. It would be good if men and women respected eadh other the way God intends for us to.

This is something that I have always wondered about as a women. The Bible speaks of deaconess and prophetess as functional gifts within the church. I've NEVER heard of a church who recognized that gift in women. If they were perhaps, women would not be working so hard to supplant the authority given to men in the chruch.

Thank you for the apology. I don't mean to sound like a know-it-all. I certainly don't know all. If I did, I am certain that it would be more than I can bear. I'm hoping that eventually, I will become more childlike, knowing less and depending upon my Father completely.

In Christ,
Permalink 10/16/07 @ 10:50
Comment from: lenbenhear [Member] · http://www.myspace.com/lenbenherehear
Yes. Vindictiveness and bitterness are very ugly works of the flesh. Men have much to account for as well, ... especially abuses from the past that have aggrevated and brought forth this terrible fruit.

I am surprised that you are unaware of the many charismatic and pentacostal and mainline churches that not only *ordain women* as 'pastors' but also have the designated ministrial term of "deaconess" and "prophetess." Biblical Baptists, of course, do not allow these kind of terms or "offices" to be given to women. A 'prophetess,' of course, is a gifting and calling for women found in both the New and Old Testaments. - but it was never meant as a usurping office of leadership over men, ... except when the men of Israel became so weak and so apostate that GOD had to call a woman named Deborah to Judge Israel as a prophetess.

Today, there are women who *regularly* usurp the God-ordained position of men in both church, family, and society. Like I said: this is getting ready to change in a very dramatic way, ... even BEFORE the LORD returns for His Church.

Shalom and GOD bless.
Permalink 10/16/07 @ 12:37
Comment from: Pam [Member]
There are not many charismatic or pentacostals in my area. They tend to blend themselves into the existing churches. I know those gifts are not to be authoritative but it is hard to be a woman on fire for the Lord and not allowed to speak or utilize their giftedness. I think the church suffers for that also. A desire to rule over others is a sin for both sexes and ought to disqualify anyone from a leadership role. Also, many churches force a governing role upon those gifted as Deacons who are gifted as Deacons but not as Elders. We Bible believers often bag on the Catholics for their unbiblical form but most of us aren't structured according to the Bible either.

I hope you are right and I hope things do change. I see young Christians going in a very different direction that people of my generation. They are much more focused upon their families. It reminds me of the verse in Malachi stating that the LORD will turn the hearts of the fathers toward their children before the great and terrible day of the LORD.----I remember reading that many years back and thinking, "Boy, that will take a work of God!" but now I believe I see Him doing that work. I think we will witness Him doing many more good works in the future and we have a very long future with Him ahead!

Permalink 10/16/07 @ 13:23
Comment from: Timothy [Member] · http://www.TrumpetCallofGodOnline.com
Glad to see you two work things out according to the fruit of the Spirit.

Just to clarify: The 'Last Week' will be 2011-2018 with the rapture sometime around 2011. See "Bible/Letter study" on my website and then scroll down to "The Seventy Weeks of Daniel Supplement...Chart & Evidence Supporting 2011-2018 as the “Last Week”"

Have a blessed week in the Lord, brother!
Permalink 10/16/07 @ 15:14
Comment from: lenbenhear [Member] · http://www.myspace.com/lenbenherehear
Thanks for clarifying that. If the prophetic timetable is correct on that one: Passover, Pentacost, or the Feast of Trumpets would be the most likely time period [in the year 2011] for the rapture of the Church of Philadelphia [or 'the remnant church' looking for His return and walking in the Spirit] !

Pam and I have our little "coming to an understanding" now and then: it helps to focus things when there is not ALWAYS *complete* agreement on every little thing that is said or believed. She knows I love and respect her as a mature Christian. ... she also knows I can be a somewhat 'difficult' person at times. - she usually handles that very well. ... Trent, even more so. LOL !

I'm going to go take another look at that prophetic timetable and then get back to you on that one.

Be blest in Jesus.

Permalink 10/16/07 @ 18:59
Comment from: Timothy [Member] · http://www.TrumpetCallofGodOnline.com
Len, I have something regarding the '2011-2018' as the Last Week. I prayed the Lord yesterday for added clarity and understanding and His response was for me and also for you, as I am now writing this to you as the Lord has commanded me.
The Lord told me that a more complete understanding will come as the Day approaches and will be given. But, of this, He told me to receive and share with you also.

When we look toward the 'first harvest' and the coming of the Son of Man in His glory, count not, nor consider according to man's calender we call, "Gregorian", nor of any other, rather count all prophecy and years accounted to its fulfillment according to what God has put forth to His people at first. Neither count a year as 365 days, but as 360 days, and count not the new year according to 'Jan. 1', but according to Rosh Hashana, the Jewish New Year (Feast of Trumpets).
Also remembering that the Lord is very purposeful and exact in His Words bringing to pass His Word exactly as He has spoken it, according to His will, even though we often times don't grasp it fully or mistakingly apply our own understanding and expectations to it. Even so, afterward we will see clearly as it is for us who are yet flesh.
However, the Lord has said no one knows the day or the hour. Yet of the years and season the Lord commands us to know and has revealed it...for the Day is at hand! And as it draws quickly toward fulfillment we will also be given greater and greater understanding so we might proclaim it to all those who have ears to hear, so they can prepare to meet the Lord.

Come Lord Yeshua!

Your brother in Christ's service,
Permalink 10/18/07 @ 10:14
Comment from: Len [Visitor] · http://www. msypace.com/lenbenherehear
Thank you so much for that clarification, brother. I think we are very swifting moving into the final days of tribulation, sifting, separation, AND HARVEST. People, - yes: even well-meaning people, - can debate these issues *and the timing* almost endlessly, ... but the truly important thing is: we must prepare ourselves and *All who will hear and receive* for the coming of the Great and Dreadful Day of the LORD. - WONDERFUL for those who are ready, ... TERRIBLE for those who are not.

blessings and kind regards.

Permalink 10/19/07 @ 04:02
Comment from: Timothy [Member] · http://www.TrumpetCallofGodOnline.com
Permalink 10/22/07 @ 16:02

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