Post details: What is the alternative?


Permalink 08:46:31 am, Categories: By Trent, 218 words   English (US)

What is the alternative?

If I am not for obedience to God, then what is the alternative?
It could only be that I am for disobedience.
Then whose child have I become?

Peter once said to the Lord Jesus: "No, Lord."
... and in merely two words Peter crystallized the irony that we can find ourselves in when we proclaim Jesus as Lord, but deny that He rules over us.

Lets encourage each other to shed rebellion.

Father, you are welcome here. Holy Spirit, we invite your influence and grace. Jesus, we bow. You are the Lord, and we are your beloved servants, made fit for heaven by your gift. We also know we are made fit for earth while we await heaven. Behold, You have placed crowns over our heads and we have not yet grown into them in fullness. Mature us. Thank you that maturity comes to all those that would simply find it suitable to trust You and obey. Wash away our rebellion, that we might delight in saying "YES!" to You in all things, even the impossible, knowing that with You, all things are possible. Amen.

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Comment from: Pam [Member]
Hi Trent,

Of course not any kind of obedience will do...but only that which comes from a changed heart and only God can truly change one's heart. If I obey from my will against what is in my heart, then I've given the tea-cup that I am, a good scrubbing and shining on the outside but on the inside, my Father sees the tea stains that remain. Before obedience must come surrender. Without the first, then even outward obedience is an expression of rebellion and likely as not, is given to impress one or more of our peers and doesn't belong to God at all.

Ask me about the dangers of 'positive peer pressure' and I'll tell you what I learned about code vs. spiritual renewal. ;-/

Permalink 05/31/07 @ 10:27
Comment from: Ambree C. [Visitor]
The problem comes when you're focusing more on our actions rather than abiding in Christ's provision for us. Obedience comes naturally when your focus is on the Lord working His Will out through you. Nobody is saying that we're not for obedience--what is being said is that we're for Christ working out obedience to Him through us--the focus is on Him working and not us.

Trent, I'm curious as to why this has become an issue for you. Is abiding in Christ suddenly not enough anymore, that we have to add something more to what Christ is able to produce in us? Remember, He works in us to will AND do of His good pleasure; in other words, He's working in us to give us the desire and the power to obey Him. Resting in that should be more than enough--it's all Jesus, period.

Ambree C. :)
Permalink 05/31/07 @ 15:08
Comment from: Trent [Member] ·
Brothers and sisters,

And attitude is at the root.

At the root, where the "inside of the cup" is washed is the key ... not the outside of the cup, nor the fruit.
As a wise brother once said, "if you don't like the fruit, lay an ax to the root." or "don't sweep cob-webs, go for the spider."
Even Bob George said "don't pull weeds, when you can grow grass that will choke out the weeds."

So, if you read the post again, you will see that line-for-line and word-for-word ... all my attention in that post was to the root ... the attitude of the heart, and whether it be an attitude of service and obedience or rebellion and usurping His lordship.

Perhaps if there was any attention toward the fruit instead of the root, then I should go back and smooth that out. Nevertheless, I have reviewed it just in case (after more than one response that seemed to miss the point) and could not find any superficial treatment of "the outside of the cup."

I'm not saying that Jesus is not enough or anything of the sort. Its just that rebellion has stolen alot of my enjoyment of life, and I would rather find that attitude that is at the root of the rot and cut it away. I'm finding that I am no longer suited for that attitude. If you don't have the problems that I have in this regard, than you have reason to boast.

Ripening for the harvest,
Permalink 05/31/07 @ 16:40
Comment from: Pam [Member]
Hey Trent,

I wasn't complaining, just adding to as is probably my obnoxious habit...I've been thinking about that today. I'm certainly not for nurturing sin habits and saying, Oh well, I'm forgiven because forgiven or not, sin makes us sick. I just spent a lot of time trying to obey from my own will when it's easier and much more effective to just say, "I can't Lord! Please take it!" and that works every time.

Permalink 05/31/07 @ 18:53
Comment from: Cliff [Visitor] ·
Who among us does not want to see a world where there is less ugliness and more obedience to God's perfect will? The question is not what is wanted but rather how do we get there. The bible as a history lesson clearly shows that mankind has failed utterly at being obedient. Now Paul the apostle tells us there is a way for us to change from our ugly ways.....Titus 2:11-13
11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men. 12 It teaches us to say "No" to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age,
GRACE means "unmerited favor" and when we begin with grace first obedience will follow. The unfortunate problem with many churches of today is that obedience is taught first and then comes the grace, but obedience can never happen until you know that you are already completley and totally forgiven even before you ever asked for it. God's love for us has never been based on our performance. He loves us period.....and when we believe that it changes the whole way we look at this life.
2 Tim 1:8-11
8 So do not be ashamed to testify about our Lord, or ashamed of me his prisoner. But join with me in suffering for the gospel, by the power of God, 9 who has saved us and called us to a holy life — not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time, 10 but it has now been revealed through the appearing of our Savior, Christ Jesus, who has destroyed death and has brought life and immortality to light through the gospel.

And even when Peter said "NO" to the Lord he was still loved even in all his denials.

Permalink 05/31/07 @ 23:15
Comment from: Pam [Member]
Hmmm, Society, you and Trent are about the most sweetie-pie rebels I've ever known!;-]

Permalink 06/01/07 @ 15:48
Comment from: donny [Member]
Hi Trent. We dont need a alternative .God has placed us in Christ,in Him we have,wisdom,sanctification,.We have to believe in Him.That we have this new life.No truth stands on its own we have to receive our understanding when we see how each truth relates to each other.When Christ died on the cross, our self life died with Him. When He died we died.I have to embrace that truth and appropriate it into my new life. Where some go wrong,they enter some struggle of dying to self daily. When God says their dead.What their saying to God is your work wasnt good enough Iam now going to do it myself.Jesus said you are my friends if you do what I tell you.He said if anyone desires to come after me let him deny himself,and take up his cross daily, and follow Me.My friend you cant live this life without obedience.My cross is when my will and His will cross. I have a choice to make. The choice I make is a act of obedience to Him When self wants to go to the high place.deny it.Go to the low place. When someone insults you and self wants to return the insult. deny it. And love them instead. Your always in obedience as you live the life. The new life. Is Christs life. It can only be obedient. I love Jesus if my spiritual eyes are a little dim on this matter correct me.And I'll love Him even better. donny.
Permalink 06/01/07 @ 23:17
Comment from: Len Hummel [Visitor] ·
Rebellion, arrogance, and judgementalism and PRESUMPTION is NEVER good or right or righteous. - it only wants to make "an appearance" of being morally or spiritually "superior." - it is the cause of HUGE amounts of offense and evil in the world.

Permalink 06/01/07 @ 23:22
Comment from: Pam [Member]
I agree with Donny in that I was crucified with Christ yet, I must also die daily because I still have a tendency to 'resurrect' myself and yes, I disobey, I sin, I rebel but since Christ took up residence, I can't enjoy my rebellion. Instead it disgusts me and I'm ever so thankful that Jesus picks me up again.

You're right about judgementalism, Len. It truly is horrible of us to assume that we can know and correct the spiritual life of another. However, we must also practice good judgment and for me, that means being faithful to those things that God has taught me personally. If I should disagree on some point of faith with a brother or sister and say so that doesn't mean that I am judging the heart of my brother or sister. It means I am carefully considering their words and how to assimilate them with my own understanding. I should not ever look to a brother or sister to change my mind or stance but only to Jesus. I know that if my heart must change in a matter, He will direct that change. If it is the change that my brother or sister desires in me then they truly were nothing more than a mouthpiece, as we all are, no matter the various callings that God has upon all of our lives. I don't desire to feel or appear superior to anyone, nor do I think that I am superior. I do desire to remain faithful to Christ as He is in my life and in the ways that He is directing me. I don't want to waver from that no matter who someone may be. I know that legalism by its nature brings us into bondage and the service of other men and I want to serve God only and follow others only as they follow Jesus.

Permalink 06/01/07 @ 23:59
Comment from: donny [Member]
Hi Trent. It is natural for us,to use our will to keep Gods laws, because we love Him and want to please Him,by being obedient to Him. And by an act of our will, we strive to follow His example, we try and imitate His example. Thats O'K, if thats where someone is at. The sheep can be scattered on the same path, but still following the shepperd, as they know how,and God loves them all. But God sent His son to show us a better way. God is not trying to change us, He wants to replace us. He killed us at the cross, and gave us a new life, we are a new creation, God placed us in Christ, Christ is now my new life. We now have a new way for the new life, we have to present the new life to Him by puting off the old which I do by surrending the will of the old life. We all have to have the same experiece of His life. Gods will for all of us is the same because we are in Christ. We have been predestined to be conformed to the image of His son. We are not imitating Him, we are partakers of His life, Jesus has become my peace,joy,longsuffering,etc, etc,love Himself has come to dwell in me as I yield, He is able to express His life through me all I have to is enjoy the fruits. Its the fruits that are conforming me into the image of Christ. You will find in your experience, the more you put off the old, the more you experience the new. The new master is better then the old. Jesue loves me,no matter where I'm at,He said it,I believe it, that settles it.Hallelujah. donny.
Permalink 06/03/07 @ 22:54

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