Post details: Theological Myth - Jesus died in our place


Permalink 01:05:16 pm, Categories: GraceHead teaching, By Trent, 404 words   English (US)

Theological Myth - Jesus died in our place

The doctrine of substitution is like many doctrines, that rely primarily upon popularity and antiquity of belief RATHER than upon scripture as the proof of orthodoxy.

It is not true that Jesus died in your place. He did not substitute for you.

He died in His place!
If He substituted for anything it was a substitute for the innocent animals that were sin-sacrifices.

A big problem with the doctrine of substitution is that it makes sinful man interchangeable with Jesus. Have you ever heard someone say, "Jesus was sinless, so He was the only one that could die in my place." What a haughty boast! Are you so sinless that only Jesus qualifies to be interchangeable with you? Would you say that Einstein is so smart that only he could take the physics exam in your place?

The other big problem is that if it was our place to die, then that posits mankind with real life, because only the alive can be put to death.

Another big problem is that the dynamic-interchange is corrupted in the doctrine of substitution. Where innocent life was offered to correct guilt, you replace that to assume that guilty life could be offered (us) but instead of us, Jesus died. In reality it isn't guilty life that could be offered at all. We cannot atone for our own sins, because we are not innocent. It isn't our place to begin with, it is the Lord's place, and before He came on the scene WE were NOT considered interchangeable, but an innocent life of an animal without blemish died in that place.

Another big problem with substitutionary atonement theology is that Jesus was the Lamb slain before the foundation of the world, so it could only be His place way before Adam and Eve were even around much less given the chance to sin.

While it is very true and biblical that Jesus died FOR us ... it cannot be that Jesus died in my place. He did not substitute for me. We are not interchangeable. It was His place where He died, and it never was our place. We could not die, because we were already dead.

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Comment from: Morgan [Visitor]
was Einstine without sin? are you without sin? if you think you are go ahead and die for me and my family and my friends. my point is no you can't. it's impossible. not only that but Jesus did not cheat for you on an exam, he gave you eternal life. i am the sinner and he is the one who took the punishment so i may be pardoned.
Permalink 03/18/08 @ 18:18
Comment from: Molly [Visitor]
Someone needed to die for us! in order for us to receive salvation, a death had to occur.. But, yes, we are spiritually dead,, so someone had to take our place! someone spiritually alive had to take our place and that is only Christ.. so true life humbled Himself down to into flesh to pay our penalty that we are unable to pay. True life came to die, just so he could overcome death! now He hold the keys to death and Hades, and He can unlock our chains to death so we may have abundant life through Him! No, we are not interchangeable, because we could NEVER have die for ourselves because we are born into sin (spiritually dead). That is exactly the reason that we need someone to take our place!!!
Permalink 04/24/08 @ 22:32
Comment from: Trent [Member] ·

Jesus INDEED died for us and not only us, but the entire world (1 John 2)

Saying that Jesus took your place implies that you and Jesus are interchangeable. Such is the doctrine of substitutionary atonement.

There is no interchangeability between sinful man and the unblemished sacrifice of the Lord Jesus. We could not stand in that place, so how could we call it our place by saying that He took "our place?"

I understand what you are saying, but what I am saying is that the fact that we were spiritually dead (which you agree) is incompatible with saying that we had any place being a sacrifice for anyone at all. We did not have a place by which the Lord could take or not take. We were dead. He took His the place of sacrifice that an unblemished animal failed to fulfill completely as our sacrifice.

He died for you and He died for me.

Ripening still,

PS> Don't get bothered, sister ... as long as you know we are not interchangeable with the Lord, than you have the point that I was driving at.
Permalink 04/24/08 @ 23:59
Comment from: Molly [Visitor]

I understand what you are saying. No, we are most definitely NOT interchangeable with the spotless Lamb! He was the ONLY one who could have died for all of mankind! But it was our sin up there on that cross, NOT His! And because we are such an incredibly sinful people, then we needed someone who was completely sinless to die for us. Do you not think that we all deserve death? We have ALL rebeled against God.. We are such a depraved people(Jeremiah 17:9)! In Revelation 2:11, Christ promises the overcomers of this particular church that they will not be hurt by the second death. If you take the word "hurt" back to it's origional greek language, you would find that it is defined as- "To ignore the rights of others". It is also in the passive voice., so that means that Christ is keeping us from being hurt, or He is ignoring our right... What right? our right to die. He ignored our right to die when He died for us on the cross! Now we can have eternal life through Him!

Maybe He did not die in our place, but didn't He die in our sin's place? Our Sin apparently could not die on its own, it needed some kind of sacrifice to take its place. Before Christ's death (Old Testiment)they sacrificed Animals, but still, that was not enough. and If we could put our sin to death ourselves, then that would defeat the whole purpose of Christ coming on earth to die. There was no other way. no earthly lamb could ever do the job.. No other person had the qualification.. Nothin else could have torn the veil besides God Himself, manifested through His son, Jesus Christ...The one and only way you or I could be reconciled to a sinless and holy God is through the precious blood of Jesus Christ, and the reason why we are saved is not because He hung on that cross, it is because when He hung on that cross, HE BORE OUR SIN!!! I think that you would agree.

Permalink 04/25/08 @ 16:48
Comment from: Trent [Member] ·

You asked: """Do you not think that we all deserve death?"""
In a word, "no" ... for we were already dead. Death cannot come to the dead, but only the living. You cannot threaten to splash someone that is submerged already in water, and likewise you cannot threaten death to those that are already dead.

You asked: """Maybe He did not die in our place, but didn't He die in our sin's place?"""
He was crucified before the foundation of the world, amen? Which is to say that what God has ordained and purposed is a matter of completion from His vantage point. What sin of ours existed before the foundation of the world ... or before we even existed? Did God purpose your sins?

What I would like to introduce to you another way to look at the execution of the Lord Jesus. First, sin (falling short of God) causes death (being apart from the Life of God.) The dead need life. Uncorrupted Life comes from the living and innocent. Broken and torn, our Savior shed His Life on calvary to quicken the dead. He spilled Life so that His life would make alive those that are dead. He gave His life in a present and dispersed it for the world.

Indeed, we need forgiveness for our many transactions ... and Jesus forgave us all ... though we know that he forgave many people before calvary as well. What happened at calvary had not ever happened before ... and the that was the spilling of Divine Life. He died as a method to get the victorious Life that is in Him ... and put It into us.

We pierced Him with our sins, and by His stripes we are healed.
See for yourself how much more emphasis there is on the imparting of "Life" in the Bible compared to judicial execution - with regard to what was accomplished by Jesus at Calvary.

Ripening for the harvest,

Permalink 04/28/08 @ 12:35
Comment from: Trevor [Visitor]
GO MOLLY! MOLLY is my friend!! :)
Permalink 04/28/08 @ 15:40

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