Post details: Do You Use Scripture As a Benchmark for New Revelation?

02/22/09

Permalink 01:47:56 pm, Categories: By Trent, GraceHead counseling
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Do You Use Scripture As a Benchmark for New Revelation?

I was asked this question:

So do you equivocate The Letters with scripture? I know, I know... this is the point where, if you say "yes", I slam you with that verse about not taking away from or adding to the Bible...etc. That's not my aim.

I approach truth from the standpoint of John 17:17, "Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth." Thus, every apparent 'truth' I find must, essentially, be confirmed by scripture. Every Jesus experience must be confirmed by scripture.

Do you use scripture as a benchmark? Maybe your personal Jesus-experiences or revelations? Or do you feel these Letters stand on their own?

Sorry to ask so many questions. I appreciate your openness.

Here was my loooong reply.

I equivocate God's Word with God's Word.
I do not relegate one word from His mouth as second fiddle to any other word.

Man should not add nor subtract to His Word. But that doesn't muzzle God from doing it Himself. For God is not limited and there are more than one warning about adding to and subtracting from that was written in early parts of the Torah ... and yet God, Himself, added the later parts of the Torah and New Testament ... did He not?

We should encourage each other that the Living Word is that which makes true the words in the Bible and not the other way around.

The Bible doesn't even point to the Bible. The Bible points to the Lord ... and so when I point to the Bible ... it is not for any other reason except for the highest hope that in there they might be able to focus on Jesus. And with that highest hope, it is now that I will point to the Bible (or actually the lack thereof) to demonstrate what I am talking about.

When Saul (who became Paul) was stopped on the road, he was stopped by Jesus Christ the Lord, but this was not the Jesus of the New Testament ... nor the historic Jesus. At that time none of the books of the NT had been written, not even the gospels ... and though Saul had much (if not all) of the OT memorized ... Saul, like the Pharisees of that time, were searching the scriptures in vain, for they had not come to Christ for Life. However, provided that the Lord Jesus revealed many mysteries to Paul, it was then BY FOCUSING on Jesus ... that we have two-thirds of the scriptures of the New Testament, for Paul only knew the Risen Lord by experience and experience alone.

Again, I am not saying "don't read your Bible."
I am not saying "don't read your Bible."
I am not saying "don't read your Bible." (thrice for effect.)

What I am saying is that we should NOT underestimate the effect of focusing on Jesus because the nearness of the Lord and the instruction by the Spirit (that leads us to all Truth) is the perspective FROM WHICH the scriptures are written ... and any of us so blessed by the nearness and the instruction might one day find that the Bible reads like a deja vu (spelling?)

We might find ourselves reading what Paul wrote and saying to ourselves: "That sounds like something that I would have said."

And it is to this end ... this highest hope ... that I say AMEN to the Bible, but even more so to the inspiration by which it was written and to which it points - the Risen Lord - the Living Word!

Do I require that I validate all things with my understanding of scripture? If so, what if my understanding is false? What if my understanding is incomplete?

Provided that anything "new" be tested in such a manner, which book of the New Testament would remain? Which would anyone say is completely verified with nothing new added to what has already come before? Show me a book of the Bible that contains NOTHING new, and I'll show you a publishers mis-print. For in each of the books of the New Testament there is Truth unquestioned, but surely you see what a scandal it would be at the time of its first publishing ... publishing, that is, something new alongside what was accepted before!

We live in an age where all things are neatly figured out for us. Our understanding of Truth is that of a mortician having already performed the autopsy. The cadaver lay on the table neatly arranged and dissected under bright lights ... yet behold the thing on the table is dead as anything would be that we would dissect. No twitch or motion ... the corpse has rigor mortis ... it died long ago, so take your color-by-number doctrinal guide and be happy that we have all the answers from the theologians gone before.

Yet in all of this we don't seem to understand that the Word is living and active ...

The Bible is the written word, but even without the Bible, the Living Word would not be diminished. For there was a time when there was not a Bible, nor printing press, nor King named "James."

The Word is God's sign of Life and an invitation to relate to the Lord who is present and living and active ... not an invitation to destroy it's beauty by autopsy

How many ways are there to know that I am alive? When I recently went to get my wisdom teeth removed (which explains alot of things) ... I was hooked up to alot of equipment that checked vital signs. One would beep, another would draw lines on a chart, another made a blue blip that went across a small screen, and to top it off the nurse took my pulse and anyone could feel the warmth of my skin. Before they knocked me out, I would have shook your hand, and if I wasn't sitting down then I could step on your toe, and all of these things would have shown you that I am alive. Each one was a witness to the same reality - though some of them appealed to the sense of hearing, sight, touch, and ... ahem ... smell.

Such is the nature of God's Living Word.

The Word is God's vital sign. We know God is alive, because of His Word. The Word is not merely contained as ink on paper, Jesus was the Word, and indeed we are surrounded by the Word, as the whole of the universe is held together by God's Word.

Isaiah 55:11
so is my word that goes out from my mouth: It will not return to me empty, but will accomplish what I desire and achieve the purpose for which I sent it.

When we read the scriptures we are reading the little written chart of God's vital signs, it tells us through another method, the exact thing that Jesus, in person, tells us, and that the creation tells us, that a shake of the hand or our finger on the pulse would tell us.

The evidence for God's existence is manifold around us, all witnessing to the same reality - which is the firm conclusion that God creates, God reveals, and God redeems.

A man seeking God in earnest though he has never seen a Bible or though he cannot read and never will ... will find ... and know authentically ... just as Paul knew and wrote about.

A man seeking understanding of God through academic pursuit and thus limiting what is permitted for discovery according to how well it matches up to what he already thinks he understands due to the popularity of his orthodox doctrine ... will find ... blindness in common with the Pharisees.

Ripening,
Trent

Comments:

Comment from: Pam [Visitor] · http://meredevotion.com
Oh boy, I don't want to touch this but I feel pressed to add this. I've heard many sermons that were Holy Spirit inspired and God's Word. I've had conversations with Chrisitan friends that were Holy Spirit inspired and God's Word. I've read many Christian writings that are inspired and God's Word. I have been comforted and loved and fed and encouraged by many Christians and this is God's Living Word. Yet, none of this is scripture. Scripture is not chosen as such by one or two or three men from out of the poponderence of books written about Jesus, the Living Word. The scriptures are writings that have stood the test of time and have been a guide to the household of faith through the ages. There have also been times when that household was without scripture but the Spirit still guided them through the spoken Word. If the government decided to take our Bibles away, God will still lead us by the words of scripture hidden in the hearts of the saints and if that should fail by His own Holy Spirit and the prophets and teachers through whom he chooses to speak.

Because of all this, I am not qualified alone to raise any modern writing to the level of scripture even if I know in my heart that it is Holy Spirit inspired. That is a vetting process that I am only an extremely small part of. If the writing is scripture then the passing of time will not dimenish its value. If it is not then it will perish as being only manna(sp?) for the day or will fall into dispute as is the fate of the writings of all the false prophets that have risen up since Jesus. It is God Who has promised us to preserve His Word and He doesn't break a promise. If a writing is of the same caliber as the Holy Scriptures then all that is in them will exalt Jesus, lift Jesus, and those very Words will become Jesus in the hearts of believers and the man through whom they were written will be hidden behind them and not exalted by them. They will be words that go out to the masses to perform the very work of God and not hidden in small, sectarian groups who sit at the feet of a mere man that they have made too much of.

This is a common problem for Christians who must walk by faith and not by sight, to grow weary of the sightless walk and long deeply to see Jesus. There have been many preachers, pastors, teachers, ministers, christian writers, and prophets who have been lifted above their God-given status by Christians misled by their own desires. Not all become false teachers though some are revealed as such when this takes place; but they all are hurt by such special treatment and dimenished as God's workmen.

We are not to judge for either we will make too little of a man or too much. Only God can judge us truly, and our words and the Word that He chooses to speak through His people, how it should be used. He is the only One Who sees into all of our hearts.

In His Love,
Pam
Permalink 10/25/08 @ 22:59
Comment from: Pam [Visitor] · http://meredevotion.com
p.s. I very much agree that it is fallacy to be as the Pharasees and reduce the Christian walk to dogma and make of the scriptures only precept upon precept and line upon line. The Christian walk is a spiritual walk. We don't walk according to what we see but according to the Father's leading by the Spirit.
Permalink 10/25/08 @ 23:03
Comment from: Trent [Member] · http://www.GraceHead.com
Pam,
Amen.
:-)
Permalink 10/26/08 @ 02:01
Comment from: terry [Visitor]
My deep conviction and belief is that God reveals his truth in many ways, but we must accept nothing, as truth, which CONTRADICTS the Bible. The Bible is provided as a guideline against heresies of every kind.
Permalink 10/26/08 @ 12:34
Comment from: annynomous [Visitor]

Do we need modern day prophets?

Mormonism teaches that it is important that they receive continuing revelations from God. In support of this they quote Amos 3:7 that they say proves we need a living prophet today. It says that God will not do anything except through His prophets. Actually, that is true if we remember that this comes from the Old Testament, before the time of Christ. Therefore, we have to go to the New Testament to see what the New Covenant has to say. Hebrews 1:1-2 says that God used to speak through His prophets, but today he speaks through His Son, Jesus Christ. Luke 16:16 says that prophets were until John the Baptist because after him came the Son, Jesus Christ. The result is that we no longer need prophets because we now have Christ. Mormons might say that the New Testament speaks of prophets. That's true, except we have to look at the difference between Hebrew and Greek. The word prophet in Hebrew means one who brings us God's word. In Greek it means one who preaches God's word. That's a big difference.
Permalink 10/27/08 @ 16:12
Comment from: annynomous [Visitor]

Do we need modern day prophets?

Mormonism teaches that it is important that they receive continuing revelations from God. In support of this they quote Amos 3:7 that they say proves we need a living prophet today. It says that God will not do anything except through His prophets. Actually, that is true if we remember that this comes from the Old Testament, before the time of Christ. Therefore, we have to go to the New Testament to see what the New Covenant has to say. Hebrews 1:1-2 says that God used to speak through His prophets, but today he speaks through His Son, Jesus Christ. Luke 16:16 says that prophets were until John the Baptist because after him came the Son, Jesus Christ. The result is that we no longer need prophets because we now have Christ. Mormons might say that the New Testament speaks of prophets. That's true, except we have to look at the difference between Hebrew and Greek. The word prophet in Hebrew means one who brings us God's word. In Greek it means one who preaches God's word. That's a big difference.

Interesting that your random quote is from a so called prophet
Permalink 10/27/08 @ 16:14
Comment from: lenbenhear [Member] · http://www.myspace.com/lenbenherehear
Allow me here to answer your questions and objections very simply and clearly:

* The five-fold ministry to the Body of Christ REMAINS operative to this very day BY THE HOLY SPIRIT Who has never left the earth OR GOD's people. ... this includes, (of course) *the office and ministry of the prophet. the pastor, the evangelist, the teacher, ... and even the apostolic* (ie/one "sent" to establish churches and oversee ministry)

* NOT ALL 'prophets' or teachers or pastors are sent from GOD.

* We must carefully (NOT judgementally) evaluate what any prophetic utterance means IN RELATION TO the Word of GOD and sound doctrine.

* If there is a clear and unmistakably contradiction to THE WORD OF GOD and the truths of The Gospel, ... then that 'prophet' is to be rejected.

* Does GOD still speak thru certain chosen servants to speak (occasionally) as "Thus saith THE LORD." ? ... He most certainly does. - beware in your zeal for "status quo" that you do not REJECT the voice (and ministry) of the prophets.

The prophets (and preachers) sent from GOD never contradict the whole counsel of GOD's Word, ... nor do they contradict sound doctrine relative to grace AND TRUTH.

Beware of condemning or rejecting the voice and ministry of the prophets who speak and exhort by the anointing of the Holy Spirit.
They warn; they exhort; ... THEY POINT TO JESUS. - THE LORD Jesus Christ.

Pastor Len Hummel
Clearlight Christian Ministries,
Phx.AZ. Cebu, Philippines
Permalink 10/28/08 @ 03:10
Comment from: lenbenhear [Member] · http://www.myspace.com/lenbenherehear
btw: thank you, Pam. That was a very thoughtful input on the subject.

:^)

There is the living, spoken Word, ... and then there is THE WRITTEN WORD: evaluated and having stood the test of century upon century.

One must be wise to understand and evaluate the difference between the two.

The spoken Word must, of course, always be evaluated and tested BY THE WHOLE COUNSEL of WHAT GOD HAS ALREADY SPOKEN thru the Hebrew prophets of old, ... including (most of all) JESUS and the apostles.
Permalink 10/28/08 @ 03:15
Comment from: lenbenhear [Member] · http://www.myspace.com/lenbenherehear
THIS BIBLICAL AND PERSONAL CONFESSION is [and ever remains] a very great test of the spirit: of *which Sspirit you are* . . .

JESUS ALONE IS THE LORD OVER ALL and THE ONLY SAVIOURedeemer. He has been incarnated in human flesh, - 2000 years ago, ... and [by the gift of grace and THE HOLY SPIRIT] He is incarnated in my earthen vessel as well!

i am nothing.
yet possess all things
IN HIM.

HE IS The Great and EternaL I AM.

i am nothing.
yet i am HIS.

ALL glory to The Lamb.
Permalink 10/28/08 @ 03:29
Comment from: Timothy [Member] · http://www.TrumpetCallofGodOnline.com
ARE THE LETTERS FROM GOD AND HIS CHRIST AN "ADDING TO" THE BIBLE?

Answer--> http://gracehead.com/index.php/2009/02/23/q_aamp_a_are_the_letters_from_god_and_hi_1
Permalink 02/23/09 @ 18:55
Comment from: Timothy [Member] · http://www.TrumpetCallofGodOnline.com
Excerpt:

Thus has the Lord spoken:

"...Prepare, all My beloved, for the time is at hand... the trumpet is blowing. Yet those in your land cover their ears. Therefore, I shall be terrible unto them, and nature shall rise up in its fury against them. Think not that I have forgotten the other nations. Yet listen now - they also shall receive My Word at the hand of My witnesses, the prophets. Yet of this one here, you call friend and brother, he I have sent first to this land, and in it shall the trumpet be blown by his hand, for I shall make this Word famous. For all these things, written in the Volumes, shall be even as the Scriptures of Truth. Therefore, put no difference between them. Listen well and aid him, and blow the trumpet, even according to how I have called you. For the Lord’s voice is raised and will be heard, and the earth shall rise up and fight against your nation. And when these things come to pass, yea, they have already come, and will continue, even as a woman in travail of birth... they have come and will not tarry, for they are upon you and grow in their fury; and when desolations come and are fulfilled in every corner, then they will know I had spoken it and a prophet had been among them..."
Permalink 02/23/09 @ 19:03

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