Post details: Laughing at Jesus

04/21/08

Permalink 08:08:33 pm, Categories: Announcements [A]
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Laughing at Jesus

Mt 9:24
[Jesus] said, "Go away. The girl is not dead but asleep." But they laughed at Him.

There was a time when I would laugh at anyone that would substitute the word "sleep" for death, but I have laid aside this arrogance and embraced what the scripture makes plain.

Yes, to be absent from the body is to be present from the Lord ... we all agree, no? The question is WHEN we are absent from the body and whether or not we sleep in the earth upon death awaiting the resurrection, or if we are immediately absent from the body when we reach room-temperature.

HONESTLY, what does the Bible say?

For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God. And the dead in Christ shall rise first. Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air. And so shall we ever be with the Lord. ~ 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17

CONTRAST that to saying this:

For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are already with the Lord. . For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God. And the dead in Christ shall have already risen just after they died. . Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air. And so shall we ever be with the Lord. ~ 1 FAKEThessalonians 4:15-17

I changed what was underlined ... to match what I used to believe .. and it make NO SENSE at all!

It is written:

Mt 27:52
The tombs were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised;

Is the Lord Jesus a liar?

John 11:11-13
After he had said this, he went on to tell them, "Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep; but I am going there to wake him up." His disciples replied, "Lord, if he sleeps, he will get better." Jesus had been speaking of his death, but his disciples thought he meant natural sleep.

Was He really not the firstfruits from the dead? Have others gone before Him?

1Co 15:20
But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who are asleep.

of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything.

Comments:

Comment from: B [Visitor]
I'm not being argumentative...Just a thought.
The 12 yr. old girl that was dead or "asleep" was raised by Jesus, right?
Didn't scripture say her spirit returned to her? Where did it go while she was dead or "sleeping"?
Also,Jesus said Abraham rejoiced to see His day, How could he "see" if he was sleeping?
Just pondering...
"B"
Permalink 04/22/08 @ 23:26
Comment from: Trent [Member] · http://www.GraceHead.com
B,

I think that "faith" is generally understood to defy temporal constraints ... for example, faith says that I am seated in the heavenlies with Jesus, though the time elapse has not taken me there yet ... so as for Abraham, he saw with eyes of faith and rejoiced though time had not yet elapsed to employ his physical eyes to see what his faith was already seeing. This interpretation is validated by the context. John 8:58 speaks of Jesus being alive (and revealed "His day") to Abraham, because Jesus was existent before Abraham ... and they picked up stones to kill Jesus for saying so.

As far as the 12 year old girl ... I will tell you there is a mystery as to the disposition of the soul of those fallen asleep. Nevertheless, wherever they go ... they are unaware of it. (Ps 146:4) ... one passage makes this utterly undeniable:
Ecclesiastes 9:4-10 states: 1."the dead know nothing" 2. "they have no further reward" 3. "the memory of them is forgotten" [this does not mean OUR memory of them, but THEIR memory] 4. Their emotions have vanished 5. "never again will they have a part in anything that happens under the sun" 5. "there is neither working nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom" among the dead.

In other words, "asleep" does not imply that they cannot be placed elsewhere ... just that wherever they are, they are unconscious of it.

Ripening,
Trent
Permalink 04/23/08 @ 07:19
Comment from: B [Visitor]
Trent,
Thanks for your interesting reply.
In light of the fact that we are alive in Christ, and not dead ...here's some thoughts.
I've been pondering this soul-sleep thing and found a good formula that seemed to help me.
~Jesus. (The first fruit)
He died, His spirit (His alive part)left His body to go to the Father, then He returned to His body
(the dead part)to be reunited in newness (a new body), Just like Jesus, the little girl's spirit (her alive self) returned to God) When meditating on the 1Thess. scripture, it's interesting to note that God will "bring with Him" those who have fallen asleep."Those" who are with Him are us (in the spirit) who will reunited with our body (the dead part)just as Jesus did. v4:14. Also. it says whether awake or asleep, we are with Him. (5:10)
I believe our spirit will be w/ Him.
Anywho...it is a curious mystery indeed!!
Thanks for your comments,
B
Permalink 04/23/08 @ 10:36
Comment from: terry fuller [Visitor]
Amen,B!
Permalink 04/23/08 @ 23:11
Comment from: Trent [Member] · http://www.GraceHead.com
B,

You said: """He died, His spirit (His alive part)left His body to go to the Father, then He returned to His body"""

Yet Jesus said: "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet returned to the Father." (John 20:17)

One of you has to be wrong. You cannot both be right.

Like I said, it isn't a question of WHERE our asleep but living soul resides, but whether or not it is consciously awake or not ... and even in passages such as the ones that you quoted, it is very clear that they are not awake, but asleep (not conscious, but unconscious) ... for example: "whether awake or asleep, we are with Him. (5:10)"

Get it? Awake = alive. Asleep = dead.

I hesitate to say, but it is possible that you are using these verses to agree with me, because it is readily apparent that the verses bolster my point ... yet I can't help but wonder otherwise.

Ripening,
Trent


Permalink 04/24/08 @ 13:19
Comment from: B [Visitor]
Trent,
Thanks for your additional thoughts and time to reply. Sorry I didn't make it so clear. When I gave my "Jesus" example, I forgot to mention that when He ascends, that is also like us when we ascend with our "new body" (just like Jesus)When He (re His ascending to the Father)said, "don't touch me", He didn't mean His spirit, He was talking about His new body. Remember He said on the cross, "Into Your hands I commit my spirit". In Eccl. it says "Then the dust (our sleeping body)will return to the earth as it was, And the spirit will return to God who gave it." Also check this out in Ecc.."Who knows the spirit of the sons of men, which goes upward..."
In regard to your definition, I agree.
Sleep = dead (our body)
Awake = (our body animated and alive)
Hey, it's Ok that we disagree. It's curious to ponder. However, I like to let the word speak, instead of myself!
Be blessed,
B
Permalink 04/24/08 @ 18:28

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