Post details: For what reason are some receptive to God and others not?


Permalink 01:13:35 pm, Categories: By Trent, GraceHead thinking deeply
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For what reason are some receptive to God and others not?

by Trent

Bob askes in reply to THIS: The question I would press is simply why did some use their will to choose Jesus while others did not? What made those that chose Christ differ? Why is their "soil" receptive while others is not?

I thought I would answer with a new post, since this covers so much information. I seldom proof-text, but I added alot of scripture, to add context. However, I think that you will find that you can almost open any page of the Bible and find reference to these ideas.

Matthew 11:25
At that time Jesus said, "I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children.

Everything goes back to God's glory. It isn't about "us" it is about "Him."

Isaiah 43:7
everyone who is called by my name, whom I created for my glory, whom I formed and made."

Revelation 4:11
"You are worthy, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power, for you created all things, and by your will they were created and have their being."

God wants to express Himself fully in creation and this is not done in a singular way, but in a two-fold way. Which yeilds greater resolution of Godliness. The two ways are: 1) through vessels of ...


The two ways are: 1) through vessels of godliness, through the mystery of Christ in us, and 2) through vessels of wrath by those that are slaves to sin.

2 Timothy 2:20
In a large house there are articles not only of gold and silver, but also of wood and clay; some are for noble purposes and some for ignoble.

Look at it this way. A man has a very specific kind of pain in his eyeball, and a doctor wants to know exactly what the pain is like. So the man is told to place a check-mark by each description that matches his symptoms and place an X by each that does not match his symptoms. And leave blank all answers that are right in some ways and wrong in others.

For the sake of argument, lets say that the list was infinately long. And some were close, but not exact like: "Is the pain like a needle?" and some were exact, like: "Is the pain like a dull ache?" and many more were so far off that it hardly made sense, like: "Is the eye-pain, like a banana peel that wasn't as slipperly thanks to turf cleats on the football player?"

I imagine that most marks with an infinately long list would be an X, because there are far more ways to describe something wrongly, then to do so with absolute precision. The second most marks would be blank, because some descriptions are inconclusive. However, I think that we could agree that there are very, very, very few precise ways to describe something specific and therefore the list would have extremely few check-marks.

Likewise, in expressing Himself in creation, God has designated that some be able by the Spirit to accomplish glorifying works that are wrought in God. These ELECT would be specific prophets, the corporate identity of Israel, and most recently the Lord Jesus Christ, and His current body - the corporate Church of Jesus. Each of these vessels will produce some descriptions that are sufficient to describe what God is like. We "write" those descriptions with works that are wrought in God, and accomplished as we walk according to the Spirit.

Of course in our current condition, much of our activity is not wrought in God, and does nothing to describe what God is like. This is the wood, hay, and stubble which will not pass the test when the "quality of our works" are judged / revealed / exposed. These acts have no place in Eternity, and are destroyed ... but the gold, precious gems, and things that man could not produce ... will remain.

Matthew 10
26"So do not be afraid of them. There is nothing concealed that will not be disclosed, or hidden that will not be made known. 27What I tell you in the dark, speak in the daylight; what is whispered in your ear, proclaim from the roofs.

Both the burning and the remaining tell the whole story. The glorification is two-fold. We then see a full expression of what God is like, in what the creation did, either on their own, or by the Spirit. Both sides tell the truth. One side telling the truth about what God is like, and the other telling the truth about what God is not like, and God revealing which is which by what makes it through the fire.

Matthew 13:30
Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.' "

1 Corinthians 3:13-16
13his work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man's work. 14If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward. 15If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames.
16Don't you know that you yourselves are God's temple and that God's Spirit lives in you?

Back to our illustration of the doctor and the eye-pain ... Is it not instructive to know what the pain is NOT like? Doesn't that help? It is incomplete to only know what it is like, and be ignorant about what it is not like. Likewise, to only know what it is not like, without any declarations of what the pain IS like is also incomplete. Knowing both gives the greatest expression of what is otherwise blurry.

Which brings us to those that are not the elect, these are what the Bible calls "Slaves to sin," or "objects of God's wrath." They are really doing what God wants them to do, when they sin, and He needs alot more people doing that, because God is so Holy and Perfect, that there is far more to describe what He is NOT like, then there is to describe what He IS like. So WIDE is the path that that leads to DESTRUCTION, and many are on that path. Only a few are needed on the other path that leads to life, and few will find it.

Ephesians 2:3
All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our sinful nature and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature objects of wrath.

Romans 9:21-23
21Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for noble purposes and some for common use?
22What if God, choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction? 23What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory—

It is no accident (it was "prepared in advance,") that there are many objects of wrath made for ignoble purposes, and few vessels of God's riches made for noble purposes. Both are fulfilling God's purpose of revealing His nature, either by what they do by the Spirit that passes the test, or what they do on their own (going their own way) that is destroyed. And the gross accumulation of what is revealed to be godly and what is revealed to be ungodly will be the revelation of the nature of God.

So, it really isn't about us. We are included, but it really is about God. And we can be humbly grateful to be made for the noble purpose, rather then the ignoble, for there is nothing meritorious about us that we receive this grace and mercy, while others are left in their natural rebellious condition. We are far better off having been chosen, but we were not chosen merely so God could pick out someone to bless. Both us and the world are functioning for His glory, even if that means that the world is only doing so by storing up the wrath of God. The elect will remain, when others are destroyed in the Fire.

Contrary to popular belief, this points to the conclusion that salvation is not merely to get us our of earth and into heaven. Rather, Salvation is God's plan to get out of heaven and into us here on earth. (which later, has the co-incidental / secondary effect of the elect belonging with God, when heaven and earth are destroyed.)

Colossians 3:5-7
5Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry. 6Because of these, the wrath of God is coming. 7You used to walk in these ways, in the life you once lived. 8But now you must rid yourselves of all such things as these: anger, rage, malice, slander, and filthy language from your lips. 9Do not lie to each other, since you have taken off your old self with its practices 10and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge in the image of its Creator.

Now, I hope you see why I think it is proper for GraceHeads to emphasize wanting to see "Jesus come out (of you) and play." But to come out, He must first be within ...

In my view, the creation is mostly a blank ... neither a check mark nor an "X." In other words, planets, stars, beasts, trees ... creation leaves alot of ambiguity about what God is like or not like, though in some ways it is very descriptive, it really isn't precise. However, when the Spirit compels a Christian to love His enemies, that is a miracle by the Spirit of God, and that action will pass the test ... it reveals the nature of God with absolute precision, and indeed it is ACTUALLY God doing it! Likewise, when a slave to sin, does nothing except decide for themselves how to behave, it gets a big "X." Sin does not pass, nor with the sinners, whom God reveals that He "never knew them." The elect, rather are "known" even before the foundation of the world.

Luke 11:33
"No one lights a lamp and puts it in a place where it will be hidden, or under a bowl. Instead he puts it on its stand, so that those who come in may see the light.

One small torch, provides enough light so that darkness retreats from an entire valley.


Comment from: Mike [Visitor]

so are you advocating Calvinism?

Permalink 03/06/06 @ 16:28
Comment from: Trent [Member] ·
Calvinism is not advocated.

Where Calvinism says that man is quickend to faith as man is called, we are saying that there is a universal (non-descriminating) call to salvation, but few are manifested as willing to come to salvation ... and that such willingness or lackthereof is revealed by the call, not caused by it.

This, among other things (like 'Limited Attonement,' and salvation being the forgiveness of sins, rather then the impartation of life, etc) show Calvinism to be severely lacking.

However, from the perspective that Pam and I have shared in recent blogs / comments, one might come to the conclusion that we think that the Calvinistic view is further along then most. To that conclusion, I would agree.

Calvinism is further along then most (like ... say, Arminianism for example) yet still woefully wrong in about as many ways as it is right.

THIS, and THIS have more to say about the subject, if you are intersested. Otherwise, perhaps we could converse on specific doctrinal issues one-topic-at-a-time.

Still ripening for the harvest,
Permalink 03/06/06 @ 19:15
Comment from: Len [Visitor] ·
And this thought: Our will
is never free
until it is truly IMMERSED in HIS Will, - which is the only TRULY freewill in the Universe: a Will TO DO what is RIGHT, ... not what dishonors His Name and HIS Way and Moral Directives.
A GREAT PART OF THE GIFT OF ETERNAL LIFE is *the Divine Nature* and *capacity* to see
and perceive and TO DO The Will of GOD, - Who Is The Source of all GOOD and LIFE
and Joy and Peace.
Shalom in Sar Shalom.
Permalink 04/17/06 @ 04:30
Comment from: Sumner Koch [Visitor]

"Human, Political and Religious correctness is really a subjective list put together by the few to rule the many -- a list of things one must think, say, or do. It affronts the right of the individual to establish his or her own beliefs."

Permalink 06/12/06 @ 19:15
Comment from: Trent [Member] ·
S Koch,

Everyone has the right to establish his or her own beliefs, and when one says this is a something of substance and the other person says this same thing is a void of substance, then only one sincerely held belief can be "correctness."

Ripening for the harvest,
Permalink 06/12/06 @ 23:37

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None are forsaken, all are forgiven in the blood of Christ. It is only your rejection of that Truth that keeps you from joy and life. ~ Timothy [Letters from God and His Christ - Volume 3 - All Who Love the Truth Obey and Strive Everyday to Walk in Its Ways]

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